(本贴笔误, 概由三毛负责,如果影响理解,敬请提问;如果不影响理解,请给与必要的benefit of doubt.)
某个著名的本站Commentator,似乎对'伊人'这样的普通词汇也要进行不确地理解,实在是令人诧异. 无论是辞海, 辞源, 抑或是汉大等等,都毫无疑义地定义为:＂此人"或"那人",有的更进一步诠释为:指意中人. 兼用于男女.[事实上,'伊'字单用时作为代词,指"他"或"它"要比指"她"早数百年 (据汉大)] 所以,无论如何不知'伊人'从啥时起就只能指女人(sister)而不能指男子? 如果该Commentator确有别人难以企及的秘藏宝典,愿闻其详.所以"万里'伊人'"= "万里之外的(这个/那个)人", pure and simple. 所以,我便退而求其次,怀疑我自己对英语sister的理解太不够深刻,找遍OED不得要领,抑或是7-9世纪fossilized Old English gems 中sister一词的遥遥先驱可以兼指男性? 同样愿闻其详.
老莎的十四行诗有篇Shall I compare thee to the summer’s day?的,几百年来有恶意无恶意的文人便千方百计繁衍出汗牛充栋式的考证,无非是无中生有煞有介事地把一般人的注意力引向一个子虚乌有的"他". Give me a break! 这大概是'意淫", English style.
世界上本来是没有骂的,骂的人多了,人们也往往自觉不自觉地人云亦云地激起愤来.所以常常懒得去真正考虑一下原骂是否有道理,是否站得住脚.貌似无限公允的旁观,占人口比例似乎仍在不断增长,计划生育工作成效与否对此毫不相干.
此外, 本站还有paramount language user('语巅'级人物),其逻辑思维之混乱,达到obliquely abominable的程度,虽然假如我也愿意使用sophistry的话,那么他们的论证'孰几可通',然而我违心不起来.
[我更愿意斗胆说,假如一开始,我'童言无忌'地罗列了更多的anchor commentators的话,那么与我打笔墨官司的是无论如何不太可能用同一样的笔调的, 虽然此'童言无忌'可以和彼(包括了更多人数anchor commentators)'童言无忌'可能同样的"无忌".究竟几句不上档次的'喝彩"(just some honest opinion)又如何如此不得人心呢? 究竟在痛定思痛过后,旁观者清的人们是否又愿意多花上比在鄙人笔误上的流连忘返多出数秒钟的时间稍稍想想: 纯粹的中国人的血管里为什么流动了那么多的与人纷争的天性,莫非这就是是某个大人物'爱的潜流'(undercurrent of love)在"人际关系"中最'本真"的原始驿动? (虽然, 该commentator在他撰写的posting中巧妙地把无可否认的存在于中式家庭内部的'爱的潜流'和我在原文中"人际关系"倡议使用的positive overstatement等量其观,其实二者本来就是风马牛不相及也.我的原文根本没有直接涉及中式家庭内部的人际关系,也根本不愿费墨,那原本就是各人私事,只是留在美国的中式家庭内部人际关系上或多或少在民主化的进程上加快了步伐. 一句"美国人不过是假惺惺的being sweet"难道不也是以偏概全吗? 以您那历经苍凉的慧眼,"真/假惺惺"有甚不能在刹那间加以甄别的, 到底是国内的假货多呢(包括虚假的"人际关系")还是外国的假货多呢? 以中式家庭内部人际关系中的贴心程度与非家庭内部人际关系中的贴心程度相比,其谬大矣.
"如果一个国家到达了(在公共汽车上)女人不得不和男人抢座位(的程度),这个国家就不太有希望了." 诸如此类的一切难道已不复存在? 而我一时anchor commentator'无忌'之言,果真就有'两桃杀三士'之奇效?'两桃杀三士'不也早已有了历史公论了吗?! 不得不说pit nicker的直接提醒我最初的遗漏是最有效的,经他一说,我也讪讪.如果那些无桃者有毛遂自荐的主动,那么除了anchor commentator之外也不是不可再加出regal, paramount, expert, supreme, divine的,等到OED也不够用了,还有Thesaurus Lingua Latinæ,直到人人都可拿到个与众不同,包您满意的appellation, 即使为此需要制造出盘山堆海的分量而不得不夜以继日的overtime, 成本代价也还有限.)
然后以上都不是本贴主旨,本贴主旨在于opine, evaluate, opinion evaluation这几个词的英语用法. 我的直觉是许多'旁观者'有意无意把opine 等同于evaluate, opinion 也就顺理成章地成为evaluation的同义词. That’s a huge misconception, 虽然,不很精审的中译很容易让人得出错误印象.
在韦氏词典里opinion的主要定义有:
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter or particular matters *why ask my opinion if you have already decided* b (1) : favorable impression or estimation (as of a person) : APPROVAL, ESTEEM
2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge : settled judgment in regard to any point : a notion or conviction founded on probable evidence : a belief or view based on interpretation of observed facts and experience *a man of rigid opinions*
而与evaluation完全不同:
the act or result of evaluating : JUDGMENT, APPRAISAL, RATING, INTERPRETATION
evaluate 又是被如此定义的:
1 a : to set down or express the mathematical value of : express numerically b : to estimate or ascertain the monetary worth of : VALUE *the inspector evaluated the horses at thirty-five dollars a head— F.B.Gipson*
2 : to examine and judge concerning the worth, quality, significance, amount, degree, or condition of : APPRAISE, RATE
在商务实际中, an opinion on a business (made by an auditor) 和 an evaluation of a business是具有天壤之别的.后者必须由专业appraiser来做, auditor如果没有appraiser执照,根本无法染指其间.在auditor的术语里,比opinion低的'主观意见'还有discussion matters 和 advice, 比opinion高的'主观意见'有standard, principles. 这些都是基于主观印象之上的,不同于自然学科里的law. 在自然学科里,基于主观印象之上某个人的opinion也许更不值一钱.即使在商务实际中,正式的opinion也仅具参考作用,不具有强制权. 事实上,大约只有50%的公司使用opinion中的建议,余下的一半遇到同样的情况酌情处理.
何况,我的个人opinion尚且还不是professional opinion, 除了表明一种个人偏好,没有任何意义. 去餐馆点菜的人,并不需要把所有菜肴一一尝遍后方才具有提出opinion的可能, 有人常去某餐馆,点来点去不出3-5道常规菜式,也仍然不妨他/她说出"This is your best entrée on the whole menu."一类的主观性品语, 即opinion, 即使他/她与另外999道山珍海味尚且无缘.
问题出就出在这儿.我的'主观性品语"竟然被一次次当作了'人身攻击',我倒愿意领这个虚衔,不过,诸位首先请prove it. 事实上,我是不可能对任何网友作出evaluation, 这在语义和语法上根本讲不通! 所以究其根本, 对于某些'旁观者', 我可以认为是没有搞清opinion和evaluation, 对于熟喑个中奥妙的,最大限度的利用中英文词义上的差别大作而特作文章的现象,仅表示我个人极大的愤慨. 如若不信, 请再细读以下的excerpt:
But once you initiate yourself into the world of evaluation, you are supposed to be ready for opposites. Not everybody is the same under the sun, and everyone is entitled to have and voice their own opinions, notwithstanding your liking it or not. It can be unpleasant at times, but sadly it is both logical and natural.
能有此'奇文'的,定是位不凡的'语巅'级人物. evaluation 和 opinion在同一段中"不偏不倚"的错位,显示出作者对英语高深莫测的理解.即使别人都误解/混淆了这两个词的意译, 我都有可能信,但此公不在此现--(again, just my OPINION, not facts or evaluation.特再此加以说明)
1. 为什么别人的都是opinions, 我的"童言无忌"是evaluation?这不是误导是什么? 各人语言表述方式千变万化,但opinion的性质如何就起了变化? 请出示权威'指南'或'宝典秘籍". 如若不能,请给于我必要之正名.
2. 在这同一段中, 逻辑混乱. 我的有感而发的opinion和别人的opinion凭什么非得是"因果"关系,但凡有所感,尽管发表感想,何苦非等到我先开了口,您才毕恭毕敬地回敬(this looks rather retaliatory than benign reciprocity to me.)凭什么我的感慨来到之时, 您的return opinion (to give you the benefit of doubt)也嘎然而至呢?
3. 何况最大的问题是, I have given positive or near positive opinions only.并无揭示别人短处的事实.正如Last Hermit说言"汝非圣贤，孰能无错", 对我进行最大攻击的("opposites")的几位, 我甚至根本连任何opinion的屁也不曾放过一句啊! Where is my negative / opposing opinion???!!! 借助于高超的语言技巧,奸淫事实的文笔实在不值得模仿. 莫非作者的愿意是说我'表扬'了几位, 而我的表扬有误, 与您的意见相左, 那您的意思是说那几位不值得表扬,不妨坦率表明您的真实想法. 究其实,不就是我少说/漏说了对您在工资待遇, 住房分配,子女入托等等都没有任何实质影响的一两句口头表扬吗, 值得如此大动肝火吗? 早知您气量如此之小, 这supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
commentator的虚衔非您莫属. 现在送给您不知是否还来及.
在您的大作末尾, 您似乎表达了一种极其美好的祝愿, 即: My only wish is that the following won't happen with you: 幸于始者怠于终，缮其辞者嗜其利。
思前想后, 我是提供不出这么深邃的警句的, 所以只有两个不成对的句子:
1. 无私才能无畏.
2. 老年戒贪. 慎之,慎之!
[Users beware, as usual, all my opinions are FALSE and TRIVIAL.]
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跟贴目录 (List of Followups):
- 几点解释 - tian xin 20010630172213
- Don't Get Too Angry - Take It Easy 20010630180002
- I clearly view it it as a form of 'skiamachy' [与影子打架] but I don't know if this OPINION is accepted by others or not. - 三毛 20010630230954
- There’s nothing new under the sun. 天底下啥玩意儿没见过？！ - 野草 20010701233954
- 天底下啥玩意儿没见过?? - You You have a god's eye? 20010702212025
- 嘿嘿，awesome 的该是 God，因为这话就源出圣经！ - 野草 20010702225559
- 嘿嘿，awesome 的该是 God，因为这话就源出圣经！ - 野草 20010702225559
- You are lecturing on the importance - Funny 20010703210610
- 弱冠尚未而立, 不然再"童言无忌"岂不让人笑话.只是不明白, Tian xin的东西居然也大言不惭号称别人看不懂, Why?! - David 20010704020805
- Don't be upset, my friend. - tian xin 20010704032017
- 竟然没有识别出您是New New Variorum主编之一,实在过意不去. - New New Variorum 20010704115851
- David, I am disappointed in you : ( - tian xin 20010704173129
- 对您本人和您的挑战等等实在不感兴趣.文如其人!您老的文字早已把您的高低上下的一切的一切和盘托出,更具体的技术上的穷尽性研究也就远远不必了,已经伤人多多,不想再粉碎一个美丽和天真的纯梦.让我也再次为少男少女们歌唱.我们毕竟也还是太老了,过于俗气的东西太根深蒂固了. - Parvum Speculum 20010705011713
- I won't point out your mistakes either, David : ) - tian xin 20010705014804
- "may just as well turnED out to be" ?? What a pack of BS! - Disgusted 20010705092557
- I won't point out your mistakes either, David : ) - tian xin 20010705014804
- 对您本人和您的挑战等等实在不感兴趣.文如其人!您老的文字早已把您的高低上下的一切的一切和盘托出,更具体的技术上的穷尽性研究也就远远不必了,已经伤人多多,不想再粉碎一个美丽和天真的纯梦.让我也再次为少男少女们歌唱.我们毕竟也还是太老了,过于俗气的东西太根深蒂固了. - Parvum Speculum 20010705011713
- David, I am disappointed in you : ( - tian xin 20010704173129
- 竟然没有识别出您是New New Variorum主编之一,实在过意不去. - New New Variorum 20010704115851
- Don't be upset, my friend. - tian xin 20010704032017
- 天底下啥玩意儿没见过?? - You You have a god's eye? 20010702212025
- There’s nothing new under the sun. 天底下啥玩意儿没见过？！ - 野草 20010701233954
- I clearly view it it as a form of 'skiamachy' [与影子打架] but I don't know if this OPINION is accepted by others or not. - 三毛 20010630230954
- 降低火气，莫谈“过事” - JT 20010630183043
- 谢二位好心. 只是,即使在日常情况下,evaluate如果直接用于 - 三毛 20010630184017
- 谢二位好心. 只是,即使在日常情况下,evaluate如果直接用于平级的同事之间,negative connotation是很明显的. - 三毛 20010630192810
- 谢二位好心. 只是,即使在日常情况下,evaluate如果直接用于 - 三毛 20010630184017
- Fatlady has sung - Me Again 20010630204123
- Congratulations - JT 20010630214342
- 如 何 翻 译 You don’t have to have the last word? - WAX 20010701132936
- ? 学会沉默. - 三毛 20010701135416
- （夫妻/朋友/网友之间）没有必要事事争胜（压倒对方） - JT 20010701145106
- On behalf of All residents on this site, I really want to say “THANK YOU” to you for your MAGNANIMITY support to others. - 三毛 20010701152644
- I do not want to start another war. However, please do not - Datou 20010701163338
- Other than to suggest you to learn more about the English language, I have nothing else to suggest. - 三毛 20010701173545
- Other than suggesting that you (should) learn... - is more idiomatic 20010701181115
- Other than to suggest you to learn more about the English language, I have nothing else to suggest. - 三毛 20010701173545
- I do not want to start another war. However, please do not - Datou 20010701163338
- On behalf of All residents on this site, I really want to say “THANK YOU” to you for your MAGNANIMITY support to others. - 三毛 20010701152644
- 何必非你最后说了算才甘心！ - 野草 20010701162652
- Thanks! - WAX 20010701172919
- Thanks! - WAX 20010701172919
- ? 学会沉默. - 三毛 20010701135416
- Congratulations - JT 20010630214342
- Email me, lady! - laoliu 20010701011717
- Everybody, myself included, has already forgave you, there is no need to rekindle this "undercurrent" of hatred. - 三毛 20010701014628
- Who wrote the awful sentence you quoted??? - Tony 20010701055653
- You spoke for everyone else again. In my - Datou 20010701184213
- «鸟字歌» 鸟鸟复鸟鸟,鸟鸟何其多.鸟眉鸟眼鸟鼻子,鸟言鸟语鸟架子.纵使浑身上下尽是鸟,鸟来鸟去中鸟用!为君翻作«鸟字歌»,不该鸟时莫用鸟. - 旁观 20010702104439
- 彼“旁观”非此“旁观”，口气倒象擅长顺口溜的三毛David. - 前旁观 20010702140230
- [An attempted English translation, unsatisfactorily:] - 用'鼻子'不如'用'嘴皮' 20010702202551
- To all: 看到吵架我就头晕。各位饱学之士，咋这么容易象幼儿园的小朋友一样赌气呢？ - 无情 20010703012925
- Guess that's why. - Kindergarten Rejects 20010703013602
- 嗯，幼儿园不收诸位？嘻嘻。。。 - wq 20010703024138
- 嗯，幼儿园不收诸位？嘻嘻。。。 - wq 20010703024138
- 俺可没跟David吵架，只是见他与俺共享笔名，才出面做个说明而已。 - 前旁观 20010703062432
- 哈哈：该来的没来--不该走的又走了--我又不是说的他！ - 无情 20010703072444
- 双方 is not the accurate word. And it's not for 打掉他的脾气, but for improving mutual understanding. - Owen 20010703074632
- Thanks for sharing. :-) - wq 20010703082610
- U are the forever "unconniving" one, man! - 三毛 20010703085913
- “打掉他的脾气” - laoliu 20010704020858
- 4,5个大人联手对个后生晚辈'拳打脚踢', 脏话吗,也是您先动的粗.不过,我对您和Owen都没有恶意,不打不相识.就只可恨Tian Xin,既虚情矫饰,又没有什么大才气,也自命不凡把他不堪入目的东西梦呓为红楼,莎士比亚,真是不知天下有羞耻二字. - Tian Xin颜面直几何? 20010704023805
- No, no！U must have been misled by a prejudiced briefing! And u wronged tian xin, too! - Owen 20010704102919
- No, no！U must have been misled by a prejudiced briefing! And u wronged tian xin, too! - Owen 20010704102919
- 4,5个大人联手对个后生晚辈'拳打脚踢', 脏话吗,也是您先动的粗.不过,我对您和Owen都没有恶意,不打不相识.就只可恨Tian Xin,既虚情矫饰,又没有什么大才气,也自命不凡把他不堪入目的东西梦呓为红楼,莎士比亚,真是不知天下有羞耻二字. - Tian Xin颜面直几何? 20010704023805
- Thanks for sharing. :-) - wq 20010703082610
- Not only cultured, but WISE indeed. Our online resident sage. - 前旁观 (all is fair) 20010703104301
- Where is the last guest, I wonder ? : ) - tian xin 20010703194021
- 回您的话,漏是漏了几个,但问题不太大.能评判红楼,莎士比亚的,99%写不出红楼等,又在偷换概念.若说四人总体上不如其他人,则有失公允.他们各有所长,并非在所有的地方包打天下,'德'字也属上乘. - David 20010703233223
- 能真正评红楼莎氏的，至少能看得懂红楼莎氏。问题是您至今都没明白我的意思。 - tian xin 20010704001755
- 能真正评红楼莎氏的，至少能看得懂红楼莎氏。问题是您至今都没明白我的意思。 - tian xin 20010704001755
- Thanks for sharing :-) - 无情 20010704011718
- "Angry Young man" 是套语, 是我看到OWEN的文笔实在太象20多岁的年轻人,所以借用此套语, 不含其他任何含义. - Angry Young man 答复 20010704022546
- My last words on this issue - wq 20010704030251
- My last words on this issue - wq 20010704030251
- Sharing is mutual understanding :) - tian xin 20010704024259
- 不如把您最为得意的文字贴上来,让大家有机会说说"Your English is blooming good！" 或"marveling at the way you write English." 一类的评语,我也顺便找些合用的citations,让您 - 不必再'无原则的纵容' 20010704085340
- 不如把您最为得意的文字贴上来,让大家有机会说说"Your English is blooming good！" 或"marveling at the way you write English." 一类的评语,我也顺便找些合用的citations,让您更经典,总该可以略消消您的大气了吧. - 不必再'无原则的纵容' 20010704085535
- U may wish to search the forum and read all tian xin's contributions yourself. - Owen 20010704102426
- U may wish to search the forum and read all tian xin's contributions yourself. - Owen 20010704102426
- 不如把您最为得意的文字贴上来,让大家有机会说说"Your English is blooming good！" 或"marveling at the way you write English." 一类的评语,我也顺便找些合用的citations,让您 - 不必再'无原则的纵容' 20010704085340
- Have you noticed any stylistic resemblance between JiaoTong and Wax? - Owen 20010704090219
- "Angry Young man" 是套语, 是我看到OWEN的文笔实在太象20多岁的年轻人,所以借用此套语, 不含其他任何含义. - Angry Young man 答复 20010704022546
- 回您的话,漏是漏了几个,但问题不太大.能评判红楼,莎士比亚的,99%写不出红楼等,又在偷换概念.若说四人总体上不如其他人,则有失公允.他们各有所长,并非在所有的地方包打天下,'德'字也属上乘. - David 20010703233223
- 双方 is not the accurate word. And it's not for 打掉他的脾气, but for improving mutual understanding. - Owen 20010703074632
- 哈哈：该来的没来--不该走的又走了--我又不是说的他！ - 无情 20010703072444
- Guess that's why. - Kindergarten Rejects 20010703013602
- To all: 看到吵架我就头晕。各位饱学之士，咋这么容易象幼儿园的小朋友一样赌气呢？ - 无情 20010703012925
- Everybody, myself included, has already forgave you, there is no need to rekindle this "undercurrent" of hatred. - 三毛 20010701014628
几点解释
作者(Author)：tian xin - 2001/06/30 17:22:13 ***也许对语言太不敏感了，看到引我的话，才知道这长篇大论是为我写的。没有时间仔细研究你的作文，就几点稍做解释。如果出现理解错的地方，见谅。
一、原以为您早就明白其他网友对你的批评或提醒不是因为您在论坛上对他人的好意表扬，而是这表扬背后的自我炫耀。论坛从来不反对网友之间的相互鼓励和帮助。
二、我对您"FIAT LUX"贴的回应主要觉得不同意见是很正常的，既然您和对方已经交换了意见，没有必要再兴师动众，更没有必要进行中美文化优劣比较。后者是一个大而复杂的问题，还是就事论事吧。
三、由于最近较忙，很少看贴子。这次赶上周末，才得以参加讨论。讨论时主要是针对问题，确实对您个人没有恶意，到现在都没有。经您的提示，才知道您以其它笔名为论坛做了很大贡献。有空时争取多补课，多学习。
另外，现在斑竹在海外出差，论坛更需要大家的关怀爱护。有问题，等大家有时间了再慢慢解决吧。有一天的事情要做，匆匆写的。不到之处，请海涵。
tian xin
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Don't Get Too Angry
作者(Author)：Take It Easy - 2001/06/30 18:00:02 ***at the responses to your postings on a message board. It only makes you a bad weekend. I doubt if you have been to any message boards on a particular stock you love or hate and can survive the storm in a tea-cup raised by bashers and pumpers alike.BTW, I don't think the word "evaluations" particularly refers to you. Actually, opinions once made public are indeed evaluated by anyone who cares to read them whether you like it or not. You see, I am finishing my process of evaluating your angry opinions.
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I clearly view it it as a form of 'skiamachy' [与影子打架] but I don't know if this OPINION is accepted by others or not.
作者(Author)：三毛 - 2001/06/30 23:09:54 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
There’s nothing new under the sun. 天底下啥玩意儿没见过？！
作者(Author)：野草 - 2001/07/01 23:39:54 ***好几天前您提的这问题好象没人应答。搁到今天，不妨说：坛上啥模样的影子没见过？！
今天星期日，放大假，有点空。早起发现您的又一番opinion高论，看来您还耿耿于怀。本来我以为大家可以forgive and forget 了，但既然您还不明白，而且非要上来在亮处讨论，那我就不妨也挑明说几句了。说实在的，虽然都是skia，却没有不是活生生的，都有脸面有血有肉。相信您至少也已早过不惑，遗憾非要别人 “画公仔画出肠”(粤语)才能悟出点正理。
您以为所有的风浪都是因为大伙把您的innocent opinions误解为 evaluation才引起的，大家冤枉了您。 为了证明您没有 evaluate 别人，而只是随便 opine，您引经据典。不妨在此照录：
[而与evaluation完全不同:
the act or result of evaluating : JUDGMENT, APPRAISAL, RATING, INTERPRETATION
evaluate 又是被如此定义的:
1 ...
2 : to examine and judge concerning the worth, quality, significance, amount, degree, or condition of : APPRAISE, RATE ]
很清楚，evaluation 的几个主要同义词就包括了 judgment 和 rating，恰恰是您毫不讳言自己在做的事嘛。如果您忘了自己说的许多话，不妨再摘几段重温一下：
[2001/06/27 16:54:09 I am no bilingual as of now but I’m PAID to judge. Simple as that.
……
Had you been able to answer some of my more difficult previous questions such as the Chinese translation for "invultation", etc. etc. I would have ranked you somewhat higher. The only thing I cared about is competent evidential matter.
2001/06/27 16:14:09 … I am passing certain judgment because I am able to and I am INDEPENDENT, (I do not have any incentives to favor one commentator vs. another or vice versa and I have a congenial detestation for BS). I am able to judge because I have seen hundreds of writing samples from adults grew up in non-English speaking countries with college degrees. Should I err in my judgement, the people being judged will be among the first to refute.
Wherever there is human society, there will always be judgement, subjective or otherwise. I am an auditor in training, it is my JOB to judge and pass judgement and I am not afraid of making judgement, I do that every single hour and I enjoy doing it. Period. ]
录的最后一段，口气尤甚。既然自认专事judge活，而且夸口每日每时都在使劲干，怎么现在又变得忸怩呢？
2) 网上大家都是skia，谁也咬不掉谁的， 谈什么满门抄斩岂不笑话？这些天您觉得昏天黑地，不为别的，全因为您太过自以为是的态度，上头录的您最后一段牛B话就是写照之一。看不惯这种牛B态度，我才借您的笔误写了挖苦您的东西，希望您也审视一下自己的skia。其实，智者千虑，必有一失，谁不懂这个道理？我自己写东西也一样少不了笔误和错误啊。跟您故意”过不去“，只是想提醒您和我都要谦虚一点。这世界大着呢！
3) 您的英文功底，还有其它希腊拉丁法德文的功夫，我由衷佩服。记得我曾作过 Your English is blooming good！ 的评语(evaluation)。虽然在当时的 cotext 中故意选用欠雅之词，对您的赞扬却是真心的。说实话，您写的不少东西，还真是all Greek to me！ 凭您的才学知识，上坛逛一逛，可以做出多大的积极贡献啊！只可惜您似乎多了点您那位 Professor Williams 的气质特点，少则令人畏而远之，多则令群起而攻之。如此做人难道不觉得累吗？如能改一改，您的才学肯定会大大PAY OFF，您肯定会得到人们和影子们发自内心的尊重。
天底下啥玩意儿没见过？Let bygones be bygones. Let's forgive and forget. 希望继续不断看到您积极参与，好向您学习更多的东西。
Take it easy.
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天底下啥玩意儿没见过??
作者(Author)：You You have a god's eye? - 2001/07/02 21:20:25 ***How awesome!
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嘿嘿，awesome 的该是 God，因为这话就源出圣经！
作者(Author)：野草 - 2001/07/02 22:55:59 ***NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN --- Everything has happened some time before.--- Bible: Ecclesiastes 1:9. "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done, is that which shall be done; and there is no new thing under the sun."
Or, in modern version: "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun."
据说上帝洞观世间乃至宇宙一切，信不信由你。
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You are lecturing on the importance
作者(Author)：Funny - 2001/07/03 21:06:10 ***of modesty, yet you are so arrogant in positioning yourself. The pity is that you do not see your own arrogance.
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弱冠尚未而立, 不然再"童言无忌"岂不让人笑话.只是不明白, Tian xin的东西居然也大言不惭号称别人看不懂, Why?!
作者(Author)：David - 2001/07/04 02:08:05 ***本人GRE guarantee over 750 ANYTIME. 现代英语(After 1730) 就没有什么看不懂的. I am the citation contributor for the online "Global Language Sources" for native English speakers, why am I not qualified to view and pass judgment? I have relatively good taste and have literary composition accepted for publications in the US. What's wrong with this picture?
I earned the highest test score on Chinese in my graduating class, why am I not even allowed to understand 'the Dream of the Red Chambers". What's your basis for attacking and insulting on my mother tongue even?
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Don't be upset, my friend.
作者(Author)：tian xin - 2001/07/04 03:20:17 ***I welcome you as a contributor to this site. But don't set yourself up as the arbiter. We all make mistakes, some more than others :)
You are certainly burning the middle night oil over there in the States. Time to have a break.
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竟然没有识别出您是New New Variorum主编之一,实在过意不去.
作者(Author)：New New Variorum - 2001/07/04 11:58:51 ***您使用了"误导"一词, 我不敢苟同."误导"者,颠倒黑白,以假乱真,以次充好,正话反说,我只是"漏导",并非"误导".更何况,被导者或不置可否,或曰"I feel flattered."或酌加"但漏了太多人了."可见被导者本人并不觉得'至为不妥", 虽然'Very flattering, thank you'这样的正常反应is perfectly okay under the circumstances. 所以我给他们的"德"上也还是评为"上乘". 真心推委的就只有Yeti一人,不但有"Thanks for the accolade, but I don't think I deserve it." 更进一步补充: I am just a 面皮甚厚，谬论连篇之人 ！
自谦之词,溢于言表. [It will take a quantum leap in faith and imagination to equate "I feel flattered" or "但漏了太多人了" with "but I don't think I deserve it."]
更何况我的"误导"产生于我的关于增设对comment投票表决的倡议无人相应的posting之后, 这一条你们又都不愿正视.毕竟"漏导"是一项先驱性的工作, 因为此前并没有/不存在什么"导"不"导"的而且个别Posting确实以"误导"告终!存在于first ever attempted "漏导" 中的necessary errors就真这么十恶不赦吗?这些就是您想对一个晚辈后生所说的全部"实质性"的内涵?
本站英语最高水平之一的Yeti尚且说他的英语在"Should be"跟"IS"之间,其他人的英语能好到哪儿去是不言而喻的,只是程度上的'相对'差距而已.[甚至JT本人被我发问:"What do U think is the difference between [the way it 'should be'] vs. [the way it 'IS']?"也并没有发现这个问题中轻微的irony,而是立马怀疑他的原句有误.]
Prisca Sapientia /Ancient Wisdom 一语, 我早已经'送给'了您,并将继续送给您, 永不收回, 虽然我首次送出时, 丝毫不知道您是莎士比亚问题专家,可见, 我所有议论,均为有感而发,并不人云亦云,而且所发之感是基于first impression之上的,毫无顾忌, 所以用'童言无忌"来形容再恰当不过.
对于向您这样能看到中英两种语言终极状态之下局限性的学者,(the ultimate imperfections/limitations of any human languages),语言终究不过是一个工具,至多还可以当作一个文字游戏的品种而已 (because there is a vast, vast difference between what can be possibly expressed in any given language vs. the totality of all human thoughts, wants and wishes both past, present and future that are basically ineffable.)这是一个像我这样一个无比浅薄之人都能够每时每刻深刻地体会到的事情, 不管您在一个初学者的眼里的halo有多大, 这也许已经偏离主旨,但是一个不得不说的bigger picture.
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David, I am disappointed in you : (
作者(Author)：tian xin - 2001/07/04 17:31:29 ***I made a deliberate mistake (middle night for midnight) and hinted at it, too (We all make mistakes) so that you could point it out. But you failed the test, so my case rests :)
Or perhaps you are just a very tactful person. Thank you :)
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对您本人和您的挑战等等实在不感兴趣.文如其人!您老的文字早已把您的高低上下的一切的一切和盘托出,更具体的技术上的穷尽性研究也就远远不必了,已经伤人多多,不想再粉碎一个美丽和天真的纯梦.让我也再次为少男少女们歌唱.我们毕竟也还是太老了,过于俗气的东西太根深蒂固了.
作者(Author)：Parvum Speculum - 2001/07/05 01:17:13 ***It's nice to know you, I really mean it. It makes me fully aware that one day, out of my own conscience, I may just as well turned out to be a person just like you. It may be a very dreadful thing, but it may also turned out to be inevitable, the unconquerable force.
然而,您对于我的启示也仅在与此, 只是人品上的, 丝毫不关学术. 说实话,那些学术上的穷尽性研究的货, 除了那些注定的"倒霉虫"无法不去读以外,一般的闲人谁又有功夫浏览, 即使说是完全能够看得懂的话.
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I won't point out your mistakes either, David : )
作者(Author)：tian xin - 2001/07/05 01:48:04 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
"may just as well turnED out to be" ?? What a pack of BS!
作者(Author)：Disgusted - 2001/07/05 09:25:57 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
降低火气，莫谈“过事”
作者(Author)：JT - 2001/06/30 18:30:43 ***世界上值得愤怒的事情那么多，把火气发在虚拟的个人恩怨上，何必呢？
每一个专业，都有它特殊的专业用语，各有严格的定义，当你在进行专业对话时，
大家才好互相理解。如果这些定义能够直接投影到日常语言之中，倒也可以避免
不少无谓的误会。
但日常语言没有那么僵硬，人们喜欢用不同的词来表达差不多的意思，这些意思
可能跟专业用法完全不同（例：Have you done any work? 如果见于一个从物理考题，
而你已经把中学物理忘的一干二净的话，肯定回答不了），也可能是大同小异，
而这个“小”异又可能不是那么小，而且界限模糊。
就 opinion, evaluation 等字来说，在非专业的对话中，往往就是同义词。比如
你我在谈股票，你问我：
What's your opinion of that company?
What's your evaluation of that company?
What do you think of that company?
How do you feel about that company?
我的理解是完完全全一样的，就是问我对那家公司有什么看法。
我看在本坛里 opinion 与 evaluation 的用法也是同义互换而已，毕竟大家都知道
作文最忌来来去去用同一个词。
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谢二位好心. 只是,即使在日常情况下,evaluate如果直接用于
作者(Author)：三毛 - 2001/06/30 18:40:17 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
谢二位好心. 只是,即使在日常情况下,evaluate如果直接用于平级的同事之间,negative connotation是很明显的.
作者(Author)：三毛 - 2001/06/30 19:28:10 ***作"不得不说"一贴,如果能提供给大家一个信息: opinion[个人意见]的本意比evaluation更随便,更可以无所顾忌,更带有主观主义的色彩,使用范围也更大. 所以别人的opinion高低上下是personal taste,绝没有意料轰动如此之大(cause celebre), 原本是青菜萝卜,各有所爱,说说又何妨. 活到现在,听到别人opinion便要将人满门抄斩的居然也有了.
所列的差别,本来是来自法律术语,比在商务中的历史更久. 为了增加修辞色彩而用些近义词,也是常事. JT的例句其实只是属于口语"大词小用"现象, 中文口语里还可以将一家之内管钱的称为"财政部长"或某人wife称为"一品夫人"的, 但是正因为中文是母语,一般人是不会弄错词义的. 我想您二位在中文里不太会把'意见/看法/想法'与'评估/评价'完全混起来.
现实中,能表明'意见/看法/想法',人人都有份,能'评估/评价'的,总是少数人的专利. 我并没有误用,只是怕一再被误解. 看到有人对于Yeti一开始的回答,我就知道有人已经误解成了evaluation,要测量一下virile member,岂不是让人哭笑不得?
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Fatlady has sung
作者(Author)：Me Again - 2001/06/30 20:41:23 ***Opera over. OK ?!
One of the things I have learned in 28 years of marriage (today is our anniversary) is that you don't have
to have the last word.
(No, I did not need my wife to remind me of what day today is, actually she was the one who didn't remember !)
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Congratulations
作者(Author)：JT - 2001/06/30 21:43:42 ***经验之谈也。
Knowing that you don't have to have
the last word 就具备了白头偕老的条件。
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如 何 翻 译 You don’t have to have the last word?
作者(Author)：WAX - 2001/07/01 13:29:36 ***我 有 两 个 译 法 ：1 您 不 必 刨 根 究 底 ；2 你 何 必 求 尽 。 前 者 太 形 象 ， 后 者 不 太 雅 。 但 原 文 就 不 雅 ， 我 较 喜 欢 后 者 。 不 知 诸 位 有 没 有 更 好 的 ？
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? 学会沉默.
作者(Author)：三毛 - 2001/07/01 13:54:16 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
（夫妻/朋友/网友之间）没有必要事事争胜（压倒对方）
作者(Author)：JT - 2001/07/01 14:51:06 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
On behalf of All residents on this site, I really want to say “THANK YOU” to you for your MAGNANIMITY support to others.
作者(Author)：三毛 - 2001/07/01 15:26:44 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
I do not want to start another war. However, please do not
作者(Author)：Datou - 2001/07/01 16:33:38 ***make statement(s) or act on my behalf. Thank you very much!
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Other than to suggest you to learn more about the English language, I have nothing else to suggest.
作者(Author)：三毛 - 2001/07/01 17:35:45 ***on behalf of means 'in the interest of, for the benefit of' as well as 'as the representative of', according to W3.
Such expressions are perfectly okay WITHOUT anyone's consent, written or oral as long as one can reasonably believe that the overall interest is advanced.
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Other than suggesting that you (should) learn...
作者(Author)：is more idiomatic - 2001/07/01 18:11:15 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
Your are right: Other than suggesting that one (should) + verb... I have nothing else to say. [My original is permissible, according to OED.]
作者(Author)：三毛 - 2001/07/01 18:47:58 ***1. 1669 Woodhead St. Teresa i. xviii. 112
My intention is no other than to make Soules, as it were, gluttonous, after the obtaining of so high a good.
2. 1892 A. Powell Southward’s Pract. Printing (ed. 4) xxxii. 318
A disadvantage is the fact that..there is no mode of correction other than to reset the whole line... Still,..the machine has decided merits. It is in use in many newspaper offices.
3. 1971 Country Life 3 June 1366/3
He did not make great changes..other than to refenestrate the east and south sides.
4. 1963 Ann. Reg. 1962 520
The purpose of these bases can be none other than to provide a nuclear strike capability against the Western hemisphere.
5. 1701 Norris Ideal World ii. iii. (1704) 128
The business of the understanding can be no other than to understand.
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"other than to" is okay, but not "...suggest you to". no big deal. to err is human.
作者(Author)：Don't worry - 2001/07/01 18:56:37 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
何必非你最后说了算才甘心！
作者(Author)：野草 - 2001/07/01 16:26:52 ***---------------------------
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Thanks!
作者(Author)：WAX - 2001/07/01 17:29:19 ***I think your version is much more expressive in the Chinese diction and faithful to the English version.
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Email me, lady!
作者(Author)：laoliu - 2001/07/01 01:17:17 ***I'll tell you why I called you a sister.
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Everybody, myself included, has already forgave you, there is no need to rekindle this "undercurrent" of hatred.
作者(Author)：三毛 - 2001/07/01 01:46:28 ***There is nothing that can’t be discussed openly on this site, the one of this nature included.
BTW:
Of the near 100M word English text in my lifelong reading, your sentence construction like:
[And don't stop taking your medication, whatever you're on or should be on, for Chrissake.]
is a true linguistic abnormalism and may long be remembered as the most adapted notorious hapax legomenon on this site SO FAR.
"IT REEKS THE HEAVEN." (Hillary Clinton.)
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Who wrote the awful sentence you quoted???
作者(Author)：Tony - 2001/07/01 05:56:53 ***It'd better read:
"Please don't stop whatever medications you are taking."
What's your opinion?
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汝智可及焉!
作者(Author)：三毛 - 2001/07/01 09:05:57 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
ilurcomn
作者(Author)：laoliu - 2001/07/01 11:00:12 ***I laughed until rice came out my nostrils. :-)
Let me clue you in, hon: You don't have to have a pussy to be called one. Just kidding! It's still there, muchacha! :-)
It's good to know that not only was I forgiven, but also forgave! Or was that just a linguistic abnormalism(spll.?)? Hell, it's all "most adapted notorious" shit to me. You speak Greek, Senora? Say it ain't so, Joan.
Serious, from the looks of things, you need to read another 100M words, Fraulein. And cut down on porno consumption - whatever form it is in, be it magazines or videos or pay-per-view cable - for Chrissake. (No insinuations, woman - this refers to your gaolun on gangbanging. Ya see, I always give it to you straight. Didn't I, babe?)
You're a real head case, girl. I'll lay off of you, I promise.
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There is no need for your continued effort to flaunt your own lacunas in your imprecise knowledge in the Chinese
作者(Author)：三毛 - 2001/07/01 11:11:05 ***language audaciously both online OR in your real daily life presumably.
SUCH BS CAN NOT, SHALL NOT AND WILL NOT FLY.
This is my last reply ever to a truly abject person like you.
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You spoke for everyone else again. In my
作者(Author)：Datou - 2001/07/01 18:42:13 ***humble opinion, you did not and do not exactly have the right to do so.
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Rhetorics is rhetorics is rhetorics, how much truth there is in the wording like "of the people, by the people, for the people"? You know better, bro!
作者(Author)：三毛 - 2001/07/01 19:26:02 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
«鸟字歌» 鸟鸟复鸟鸟,鸟鸟何其多.鸟眉鸟眼鸟鼻子,鸟言鸟语鸟架子.纵使浑身上下尽是鸟,鸟来鸟去中鸟用!为君翻作«鸟字歌»,不该鸟时莫用鸟.
作者(Author)：旁观 - 2001/07/02 10:44:39 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
彼“旁观”非此“旁观”，口气倒象擅长顺口溜的三毛David.
作者(Author)：前旁观 - 2001/07/02 14:02:30 ***如果喜欢就让给你吧！
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说什么胡话呐,既作了别人的'膀胱',还分什么'前后大小'的,多少回你自顾自地出去溜达,凭什么不许我也外边走走,沽香茗,钓钓小鱼,散散心. 我可丑话说在前面,你再屡教不改,明儿起,我把我这儿的下水道堵死,让你好好独自一人享用'排泄百分百'功能.
作者(Author)：受气的'膀胱' - 2001/07/02 16:05:04 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
[An attempted English translation, unsatisfactorily:]
作者(Author)：用'鼻子'不如'用'嘴皮' - 2001/07/02 20:25:51 ***Cock after cock, dick after dick, where is the world’s prickiest/finest prick?
Cock-eyed, cock fight, cocksure met with cocky bulls…
There is time, place and hole for every tick, nick, and stick!
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To all: 看到吵架我就头晕。各位饱学之士，咋这么容易象幼儿园的小朋友一样赌气呢？
作者(Author)：无情 - 2001/07/03 01:29:25 ***---------------------------
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Guess that's why.
作者(Author)：Kindergarten Rejects - 2001/07/03 01:36:02 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
嗯，幼儿园不收诸位？嘻嘻。。。
作者(Author)：wq - 2001/07/03 02:41:38 ***---------------------------
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俺可没跟David吵架，只是见他与俺共享笔名，才出面做个说明而已。
作者(Author)：前旁观 - 2001/07/03 06:24:32 ***没错，"饱学之士"是不会答理骂街的，俺早就说了。最能让"包学之士"
暴跳如雷的不是骂街，而是让其看到自己的无知和浅薄。这也是为什么David如此气急败坏的根本原因。因此，本旁观还是要告戒各位，不必答理骂街，因为骂街者已经自取其辱了，干嘛还要落井下石？他需要的不是对骂，而是同情和抚慰。David,多多保重，睡个好觉！
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哈哈：该来的没来--不该走的又走了--我又不是说的他！
作者(Author)：无情 - 2001/07/03 07:24:44 ***俺倒也不是针对您的，我是 "To all" 发生争执的人，请别误会。：-))
说有个人请客，四位客人来了仨，第四位久等不至，主人便说，该来的怎么还不来？第一位客人不乐意了，好，那我就是那不该来的了，我走！他便告退。主人诧异不已，说，怎么不该走的又走了！第二位客人生气道，原来我才是该走的！他也起身走了。主人满肚子委屈，对剩下的那位道，我又不是说他们！最后这位一听，闹了半天，你说的是我，我才是那不该来的，该走的！他就也走了。。。
言辞本来最容易引起争执或误解，涉及到人身评论就更是如此。看看一个人说话的context, 别一定把 该来的不来=不该来的来了，问题就大半解决了。比如DAVID 当时就说他习惯于做的是在最短的时间内作出最快的判断，这样的判断有何不对，仅适用于什么情况，其实很清楚，倒浪费了大家那么多精力 :-)
还有，打个比方，假如更衣方便当仁不让的高傲的PROF Williams 来这里，我们若因不能容忍他的傲气而摈弃他的学识交流，那也算不上是“有容乃大”的真谛。要先打掉他的脾气也大可不必。
最后，不管怎么说，双方都用了脏字，至少这一点不应该吧！我看不出何以至此。
回顾这几天帖子的一点想法，俺说错则自改之，不错则自加勉吧！
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双方 is not the accurate word. And it's not for 打掉他的脾气, but for improving mutual understanding.
作者(Author)：Owen - 2001/07/03 07:46:32 ***Now that we understand better what he is, the purpose is served. The "plague-on-both-houses" approach would work in most cases, but not in this one. But you still have the right to reserve your position as we all do. Thanks for the sharing!
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Thanks for sharing. :-)
作者(Author)：wq - 2001/07/03 08:26:10 ***---------------------------
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U are the forever "unconniving" one, man!
作者(Author)：三毛 - 2001/07/03 08:59:13 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
Thx 4 ur judgment, dear paid judge! & on top of that, I'm forever the most hated one on the most wanted list, because I never cursed:-)
作者(Author)：Owen - 2001/07/03 11:06:06 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
有名有姓的皆是好汉, deep apology offered. "无头"的才真让人死不瞑目.
作者(Author)：Ciao - 2001/07/03 11:24:29 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
“打掉他的脾气”
作者(Author)：laoliu - 2001/07/04 02:08:58 ***It was MY intention. Someone had to do the dirty work, I thought. Well, moralistic policing from me no more.
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4,5个大人联手对个后生晚辈'拳打脚踢', 脏话吗,也是您先动的粗.不过,我对您和Owen都没有恶意,不打不相识.就只可恨Tian Xin,既虚情矫饰,又没有什么大才气,也自命不凡把他不堪入目的东西梦呓为红楼,莎士比亚,真是不知天下有羞耻二字.
作者(Author)：Tian Xin颜面直几何? - 2001/07/04 02:38:05 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
No, no！U must have been misled by a prejudiced briefing! And u wronged tian xin, too!
作者(Author)：Owen - 2001/07/04 10:29:19 ***You owe her an apology more than anybody else.
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Not only cultured, but WISE indeed. Our online resident sage.
作者(Author)：前旁观 (all is fair) - 2001/07/03 10:43:01 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
Where is the last guest, I wonder ? : )
作者(Author)：tian xin - 2001/07/03 19:40:21 ***故事很有趣，可是并不完全适合这次的讨论。问题一开始就不是“该来的怎么没来”的问题（参见下面的链接）。显然，DAVID 所要做的并不是单纯的“在最短的时间内作出最快的判断”，而是to act as the arbitrator at the forum because he believes he is able to do so and in doing so, he is doing a great public service, since "there are many users of vastly different levels on this site and not all of them are equally aware of the fact (or have not been able to judge competently on their own) that not all replies to the help wanted postings are true or of equal value" .
遗憾的是，David到目前为止所显示的中英文程度不足以证明他能胜任这项工作，不指出这一点，可能使初学者受到误导。当时有网友给予提醒，我想也是出于以上考虑。当然，这会容易使其他人产生类似“该来的没来”的错觉。其实专业人士是不会在乎圈外人的外行判断的，而超越被测度为“醋意斓珊”的个人考虑，坦率指出David的不对之处，是需要勇气的，我就缺乏这种勇气，只是看到David再次出贴挑战，才提醒他几句。而且又考虑到对方的面子，不愿毫不留情地揭露，结果好象反倒是自己做了亏心事似的。
昨天看到您把所有人都列入同David孩子似的吵架，觉得有点不合适，但想想事情都快过去了，就算了。今天又看到您的譬喻故事，觉得不解释一下，有点对不住自己，更对不住无私直言的野草兄和JT君。
用您的话共勉：说错则自改之，不错则自加勉吧！
链接(Link)：Why not? 一'失解'成千古恨,再'回头'是百身.
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回您的话,漏是漏了几个,但问题不太大.能评判红楼,莎士比亚的,99%写不出红楼等,又在偷换概念.若说四人总体上不如其他人,则有失公允.他们各有所长,并非在所有的地方包打天下,'德'字也属上乘.
作者(Author)：David - 2001/07/03 23:32:23 ***问题再于, 如果David有错, I erred on the side of exclusion, not erroneous inclusion. 离开这个前提, I disagree. 如果David一开始的Opinion错得太离谱,毫无可信度,也就不会有争端. David唯一的错,在于无意识地扮演了一回'分桃人'.
心照不宣的是,如果您恰在6/10-6/24的时段里Posting较多, 必然也会入选,也就没有随后的大不愉快,谁个不喜欢听些好听的? 即便您心里依旧对David的英文不以为然,我却可以打98%的保票,您不会如此气急败坏地口诛笔伐(写下包含明显逻辑错误的Posting,何况并没有把我原文吃透.),更不会细究David是何许人也,中英文如何, 云云.八成还会当成件好事跟老婆去说一说吧.
只有Yeti一人说了I don't think I deserve it.的话,不是吗? 我完全有理由相信您的反应和其他几位不会相差太多的.纵使David中英文俱差,也还不至于连国人有限的人品道德分不清,这是不需要Ph.D学位的东西.读懂了红楼,也就掌握了解读现代中国人的人心世故的总钥匙. 至少, I do not insult people's intelligence.
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能真正评红楼莎氏的，至少能看得懂红楼莎氏。问题是您至今都没明白我的意思。
作者(Author)：tian xin - 2001/07/04 00:17:55 ***David，以己度人不可取。
You and I don't have a common paradigm, therefore this shall be my last response.
Take care!
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Thanks for sharing :-)
作者(Author)：无情 - 2001/07/04 01:17:18 ***我就不再用“我说的又不是您”这样的话来解释了，这只会越描越黑 ：-)
我想在您提供的链结同一帖线下，我就明白说明了我对DAVID评论(对我的部分的)的看法了。JT， YETI 也各自说了相当于不同意的看法。我个人对DAVID的to act as the arbitrator at the forum because he believes he is able to do so and in doing so, he is doing a great public service 一笑了之。很简单，他有这样表达的自由，但并不会决定这个论坛如何，而实际上会作数的service，也只会是他自己在解疑释义方面给 网友提供的帮助。象他对OWEN说的这句话
“Angry young man, 何必醋意斓珊?”
常来这里的人便知道，OWEN是本坛的元老了，这句话何其谬哉！而偶而到这里请教一二字句的人，也不见的会care通读这里的长篇大论，弄清楚该来的和不该来的。所以我决得不必高估DAVID 这些话有何重大误导的影响。又何必双方 都煞车不住，到后来更是转向下等失去本旨。各人对一事的前因后果必有不同的看法，我说的是我的感觉。这是其一。
其二，不论象与不象，这让我想起先前如自由基，焦桐等的离开。所以我认为这样更着眼于个人品性气质--有人狂狷，有人轻狂，有人不狂，有人狂不起来--的争议没有必要，如果人因此不来，客观上的因人废言，则更失去有容乃大的旨意。
谢讨论。希望这通废话不浪费您太多的时间。
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"Angry Young man" 是套语, 是我看到OWEN的文笔实在太象20多岁的年轻人,所以借用此套语, 不含其他任何含义.
作者(Author)：Angry Young man 答复 - 2001/07/04 02:25:46 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
My last words on this issue
作者(Author)：wq - 2001/07/04 03:02:51 ***David, you don't have to fight until everyone agrees with you on every single point, do you? Neither do I. IMHO, other than your perseverence in this issue to no avail, you have much more to do in this forum to the benefits of other participants and you do that better. I have appreciated and will still appreciate that.
Not only harmony makes the beauty; but diversity and discord in skills and personality, as well as mutual tolerance. Having to have an ultimate "final words" is just pointless.
Bonne nuit,
Ne passez pas une autre nuit blanche, SVP, ce n'est pas bon pour la sante!
Sincerely,
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Sharing is mutual understanding :)
作者(Author)：tian xin - 2001/07/04 02:42:59 ***如果你在"To all"后面加上"except tian xin etc."，那不就省了这许多笔墨了 :)
“煞车不住”的不是双方，“转向下等”的也不是所有人。不管David最初的意图如何，结果是已经造成某种误导，而且是对论坛常客之一的误导："双方 都煞车不住，到后来更是转向下等失去本旨"。
开放式的论坛会出现各种各样的交流和冲突，有容乃大并不意味着无原则的纵容。网友的来去有着多种原因，还是听其自然吧。Let be!
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不如把您最为得意的文字贴上来,让大家有机会说说"Your English is blooming good！" 或"marveling at the way you write English." 一类的评语,我也顺便找些合用的citations,让您
作者(Author)：不必再'无原则的纵容' - 2001/07/04 08:53:40 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
不如把您最为得意的文字贴上来,让大家有机会说说"Your English is blooming good！" 或"marveling at the way you write English." 一类的评语,我也顺便找些合用的citations,让您更经典,总该可以略消消您的大气了吧.
作者(Author)：不必再'无原则的纵容' - 2001/07/04 08:55:35 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
U may wish to search the forum and read all tian xin's contributions yourself.
作者(Author)：Owen - 2001/07/04 10:24:26 ***From the new site, 按作者查询，找到1153条关键字：tian xin
From the old site, 按作者查询，找到395条关键字：tian xin
But I wouldn't even try to squeeze tian xin's broad mind into my own thick skull. I don't think she will ever take flatteries so seriously. Good wine needs no bush, and tian's English needs no push. Do we have to show everybody's CV to make a point? Anyway, I can assure you, tian xin majored in Shakespearian studies and she is truly bilingual for her family background. That's all I can say for the moment. I have trust in her judgment. Take care!
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Have you noticed any stylistic resemblance between JiaoTong and Wax?
作者(Author)：Owen - 2001/07/04 09:02:19 ***I won't speculate on the reason behind this continued whipping of tian xin, the Shakesperian scholar. But David, a newcomer, does seem to have been partially briefed about a number of active contributors on this site. I'm sure the sensative detective can tell if Jiao Tong is still lurking somewhere under a waxed mask:-)
ZiYouJi is quite a different story. He is busy running his own domain besides freelancing around the globe. His absence has little, if anything, to do with the heated interaction that took place here.
The exchange of different opinions is a two-way street. A tolerant pal will never try to silence dissenters by asserting authority or using abusive terms. Nor will any healthy participant drop out of sight simply because he has run into differences. So don't worry and be confident!
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Thanks. I thought U were in your 20s when I first saw your stylistic writings. After all, U are highly intelligent.
作者(Author)：二十余年成一梦 - 2001/07/04 09:20:48 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]