JUST ÓÚ 2002/01/30 02:27:17 ·¢±íÔÚ ººÓ¢
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¸úÌùĿ¼ (List of Followups):
CEG is the best expert by far on this board, far better than the so-called experts ¹ÅÔÂ, laoliu, etc.
×÷Õß(Author)£ºadmirer of CEG - 2002/01/30 05:19:12
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Ç벻רÐÄѧϰÕßÒ»±ßÈ¥£¡Ñ§Ï°¾Íѧϰ£¬¸ã·Ö°ï½áÅɸÉÂ£¡£¡
×÷Õß(Author)£ºdvd - 2002/01/30 09:01:44
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"Who you calling' an expert?"
×÷Õß(Author)£ºlaoliu - 2002/01/30 15:15:23
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ÄúÒªÊǶÁ¶ÁÎÒÉÏÌûµÄÀúÊ·£¬Äú¾ÍÖªµÀÎÒµÄˮƽ¼¸ºÎ¡£Óï·¨¡¢´Ê»ã¡¢¾ä·¨£¬Ê±Ê±ÄÖЦ»°£¬ÓÐÕâÑùµÄר¼ÒÂð£¿ÇÒ²»ÌỹÓÐÒ»´ÎÏòÈËÇóÈÄÄØ£¨¡°Ç°±²Ï¢Å¡±ÔÆÔÆ£©£¡ :-)
ÎÒºÍ CEG ûʲô¹ý²»È¥£¬³ýÁ˾õµÃËûËÆºõ°ÑÍÑ»ú (¡°offline¡±ÊÇÒ²) µÄ¸öÈËÇéÐ÷´øµ½ÂÛ̳ÉÏÀ´£¬´ÌÁËËûһϡ£No hard feelings, right?
²»¹ý£¬CEG ûÉϼ¸Ìû£¬¾Í±»´ó¼Ò¿ä³ÉÕâÑù£¬ÎÒÈÏΪÊǸù¾Ý²»×㡪¡ª³ý·ÇÄãÃÇÓбðµÄ;¾¶È·ÈÏËûµÄˮƽ¡£CEG µÄÒ»¶Î transactional text ¾¹±» David ÓþΪ¡°ÃÀÎÄ¡±£¬Õæ²»ÖªµÀËûÔÚ½²Ê²Ã´¡£
"Kown 'm sayin'?"
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"Know 'm sayin'?"
×÷Õß(Author)£ºlaoliu - 2002/01/30 15:21:19
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´¿´â"¸öÈËд×÷·ç¸ñ"µÄ, ÎÒ´ÓÎ÷Ñó´«Í³, Èý¼êÆä¿Ú, ËäÈ»Óеķç¸ñ¸üÒýÈËÈëʤһЩ.
×÷Õß(Author)£º - 2002/01/30 16:15:10
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CEGµÄÄÇÒ»¶Î, ¾¡¹ÜÊÇ transactional text, µ«ÊÇ"Dz´ÊÔì¾ä"·½ÃæÈ·ÓënativeÎÞÒì, ËùÒÔÓиøÈ˶úĿһÐÂÖ®¸Ð. ÎÒÖ»ÊÇ˵¿´µ½ÁË3λÔÚÐÅÊÖдÀ´ÈÔÈ»ÊÇnative-like, ¶ø²»ÊÇÆÀ¼Û"ÎÄÕÂÉî¶È, ¹ÛµãÊÇ·ñÖµµÃÉÌȶ....ÆäÓàµÄ×ÜÓи÷ÖÖ¸÷ÑùµÄÖëË¿Âí¼£ÏÔʾ³ö×÷ÕßÊÇnon native. ͬÑù, CEGµÄÖÐÎĺÍnative Chinese ¾ÍÊDz»ÍêȫһÑù, ¾¡¹ÜûÓÐÈκÎÃ÷ÏԵĴʷ¨Óï·¨´íÎó.
ÂÞÂí½Ì»ÊÿÄêÓöàÖÖÓïÑÔÏòÊÀ½çÌìÖ÷½ÌÐÅͽף¸£Ê±, Ò»´ÎÒ²Ö»ÄÜ˵һÖÖÓïÑÔ, ¼´Ö»ÄÜÕë¶ÔÐÅͽÖеÄһС²¿·Ö. ÍøÉϸ÷É«È˵È, ־Ȥ, ³Ì¶È, ¹Ûµã...²»Í¬, Ò»¸±Ìû×Ó²»¿ÉÄÜͬʱ¶ÔÈκÎÈ˶¼ÊÊÓÃ, Èü×ÂúÒâµÄ¶«Î÷, ÒÒ¿ÉÄÜÒѾ¿ìÌý³öÀϼëÁË, ±ûÒòΪ³Ö¶ÔÁ¢¹Ûµã, ÉõÖÁÒªµ½²ªÈ»´óŵij̶È... ¾¿¾¹ÊÇ˽ÐÄ»¹ÊÇѧ¼û²»Ò», ʱ¼ä³¤ÁË, ÂýÂý»áÇå³þ.
Ҫ˵¹Ûµã²»Í¬, ÎÒ¶ÔÒÔÏÂ˵·¨Óб£Áô:
1. µ«ÊÇ£¬ÒÔΪͨ¹ýºóÌìµÄŬÁ¦¾Í¿ÉÒÔÓÍ·¸ÏÉÏ£¬ÍêÈ«´ïµ½L1µÄˮƽ£¬ÄÇÊÇ×ÔÆÛÆÛÈ˵ÄÁË¡£ (CEG)
2. Äú˵ÓÀÔ¶´ï²»µ½L1ˮƽ£¬Õ⵱ȻÊÇ´óʵ»° (Ò°²Ý)
3. µ±´úµÄ¶«Î÷Òײ¹£¬³ÉÁËÀúÊ·µÄ¶«Î÷£¬´í¹ýÁ˾Ͳ»ÈÝÒ××¥»ØÀ´ÁË (Ò°²Ý)
ÔÒò: ººÓïµÄÊéÃæ±í´ïºÍ¿ÚÍ·ÊÇÍѽڵÄ, ÏëÒªÔÚººÓïÊéÃæ±í´ïÉÏ´ïµ½L1, ¶à¶ÁµÄ¹ÅÎľµä¾ÍÐÐÁË.
¶ÔÒÔÏÂ˵·¨¿ÉÒÔ·¢»ÓÒ»ÏÂ:
4. ´ó¸Å¾ÍͬÕâÀïһЩ¡°ÀÏÖС±¶ÔÓ¢ÓïµÄÓï·¨½á¹¹µÈµÈ¿ÙµÃ±ÈÓ¢Óï¡°ÀÏÍ⡱¶¼Éд³öÀ´µÄÓ¢ÓïÉõÖÁ¡°Ì«ÕýÈ·¡±²î²»¶à¡£(Ò°²Ý)
·¢»Ó: Ò²¾ÍͬÈÕ±¾È˰ѺºÓïÑо¿°ÒÊáµÃÖйúÈË»¹Ï¸»¹×¼È·µÄ¸ù±¾µÀÀíÈç³öÒ»ÕÞ.
¶ÔÒÔÏÂ˵·¨µÄ[É¿ÇéÐÔ"ÑÝÒ﷽ʽ"]³¹µ×·ñ¶¨¶øÇÒ¼«Îª·´¸Ð:
5. ´ó¸ÅÒòΪÊÀÈ˲»ÂÛÖÖ×å¶¼×Ü»¹ÓÐÁ³Æ¤°É£¬¶ªÁ³ £¨lose face£© °®Ãæ×Ó£¨face-saving£© Á³Æ¤ºñ£¨thick-faced£© µÈµÈÓ¦¸ÃÊDz»ÄÑÀí½âºÍÌå»áµÄ¡£Ëµ²»¶¨ÄÄÌì Webster¡¯s ¶¼Òª°ÑÕâ thick-face ÊÕ¼ګ¡£
ÔÒò: ´ÊÓﶨÒå²»ÊÇ×ڽ̽ÌÒå½â˵(hermeneutics), ²»ÊÇÈÊÕß¼ûÈÊ, ÖÇÕß¼ûÖǵĶ«¶«. ¸ß¿¼ÓïÎÄÈç¹û¿¼´ÊÓï½âÊÍ, ÄѵÀÒ²ÔÊÐíÔľíÀÏʦÔÚÆÀ·ÖÉϲôÔÓÖ÷¹ÛÓ¡Ïó²»³É?
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¶à¶ÁµÄ should be: ¶à¶Áµã; °ÒÊáµÃÖйúÈË should be: °ÒÊáµÃ±ÈÖйúÈË
×÷Õß(Author)£º - 2002/01/30 16:29:27
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¶ÔÒÔÏÂ˵·¨µÄ[É¿ÇéÐÔ"ÑÝÒ﷽ʽ"] should be ¶ÔÒÔÏÂ[É¿ÇéÐÔ"ÑÝÒ﷽ʽ"]
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Listen to yourself for a while:
×÷Õß(Author)£ºlaoliu - 2002/01/30 18:04:13
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>>CEGµÄÄÇÒ»¶Î, ¾¡¹ÜÊÇ transactional text, µ«ÊÇ"Dz´ÊÔì¾ä"·½ÃæÈ·ÓënativeÎÞÒì, ËùÒÔÓиøÈ˶úĿһÐÂÖ®¸Ð
Gosh! He is a native English speaker, and a highly educated one, too. I would expect nothing less from him.
Look, I'm not saying CEG isn't an excellent language expert - I'm sure he is - it's just that he hasn't established himself on this forum yet. What's the hurry to heap praises on him like that? I'll wait.
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ÎÒÒѾ100%µØÒ»·ÖΪ¶þµØ¿´´ýÁË, ÎÒÊÇÍêÈ«¿¿Óï¸ÐÅж¨CEGµÄnativelikeliness, ²»ÏóijЩÈËÔ±¾ºÍËû¾ÍÓÐ˽½».
×÷Õß(Author)£ºÕæ²»Ã÷°×ÎҵķÇÕýʽÆÀ¼ÛÈç´Ë¾Ù×ãÇáÖØ - 2002/01/30 18:28:02
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(¿´¹ýÀûÂíñ¼, James Legge, James HartµÈÈ˵ĺºÎÄÊéÐÅ×àÕÛµÈ, »¹²»ÖÁÓÚÑÛÆ¤×Ódzµ½ÄDz½ÌïµØ)
ÏëÏëÎÒÒ²ÊǺóÅÂ, ÍòÒ»ÎÒ½«À´²»Ð¡ÐÄ´í˵һ¾ä, ˵²»¶¨»á±»ÈË·ÅÏÂÓ͹ø.
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I see ¹ÅÔÂ, laoliu et al. detest CEG, the brightest star on this board, but their rage is nothing but impotent rage only.
×÷Õß(Author)£ºadmirer of CEG - 2002/01/30 05:31:14
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I think you are putting words into other people's mouths.
×÷Õß(Author)£ºYeti - 2002/01/30 12:12:26
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On the other hand, it could be because I am dumb, numb and insensitive and that is why I failed to see
what you saw. I do not see any of your so-called "detest" coming from any of the people you mentioned.
May be you are very good in reading between the lines , even when there are nothing between the lines.
Having read many of CEG's messages, I doubt he would have the same narrow vision as you do.
If you are a true "admirer of CEG" , you would not have said what you had.
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ÒòΪËûÃDz»ÏóJUSTÄÇÑù¶ÔCEG¸©Ê×Ìû¶ú£¬ÎåÌåͶµØ£¬»¹¼Ù×°ÓÐѧÎÊ£¬¾ÓÈ»¸úÀÏÍâ±øÈÐÏà¼û£¬±çÂÛººÒëÓ¢¡£ÄѵÀ²»ÊÇÒ¹ÀÉ×Դ󣿣¡
×÷Õß(Author)£ºsupporter of CEG - 2002/01/30 17:49:39
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CEG²»ÊÇÒ²ÓгԲ»×¼ººÓï³ÉÓï"ÈÊÖÁÒ御"(ÔÚºÍ"ÐüÑÂÀÕÂí"ÅűÈÁ¬ÓÃʱ)Ó¢Òë¸ÐÇéÉ«²ÊµÄʱºòÂð(PC Correct/incorrectness)? ĸÓïÊǺºÓïµÄÔÚÖîÈç´ËÀàµÄµØ·½³Ô²»×¼µÄ¾øÉÙ.
×÷Õß(Author)£º - 2002/01/30 18:13:21
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ÓÐËÄÜÍòÄÜ? ÓÖÓÐËÄܱ£Ö¤·²ÊǾ«¶Á¹ýµÄ¶«Î÷(ÎÞÂÛÊÇĸÓï»òÍâÎÄ)Àí½âÕýÈ·ÂʾÍÒ»¶¨ÔÚ97%ÒÔÉÏ?--³ý·Çÿһ¸öËÆÊǶø·ÇµÄµØ·½È«²¿ÔÚSLÀïÕÒµ½È¨Íþ½âÊÍ.
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ÄãÊÇË£¿ÎªÊ²Ã´²»ÓñÊÃû£¿Äª·Ç¾ÍÊÇÄÇ¡°Ìöø»ÊÖ®£¬µÇÌÃÈëÊÒµÄÒ¹ÀÉ×Ô´óÕß¡±£¿£¡
×÷Õß(Author)£ºsupporter of CEG - 2002/01/30 18:29:53
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Credential: ¡¶Century Dictionary¡·(ÊÀ¼Í´Êµä) ÍøÂç°æ online revision project CITATION CONTRIBUTOR (ÒµÓà)
×÷Õß(Author)£ºÒ²ÊÇÀÏÖÐ, ÈÎÄã²Â - 2002/01/30 19:05:32
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¡¶Century Dictionary ÊÀ¼Í´Êµä¡·ÊÇʲô¶«¶«, ÄãÈ¥×ö×öresearchÔÙÀ´·¢»°²»³Ù.
Àϰå: Jeffery Triggs, Prof. of English @ Rutgers Univ., ÈÎOED ÃÀ¹ú×é Ö÷±àÖ®Ò» ³£´ï12Äê.
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³£´ï should be ³¤´ï
×÷Õß(Author)£º - 2002/01/30 19:07:27
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Ò²²»¹ýÊǸöÀÏÖС£»¹ÂÛ²»µ½Äãcomment on CEG's Chinese!ÖйúÈËÊDz»ÊǶ¼ÓÐ벡£¿
×÷Õß(Author)£ºsupporter of CEG - 2002/01/31 01:25:11
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"ÓÞÈËÒÔÒ»Îïһƫ¶ø×ÔÒÔΪ֪µÀ."
×÷Õß(Author)£ºÈêÖǿɼ°, ÓÞ²»¿É¼°ÑÉ - 2002/01/31 13:41:05
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*fÎïžéµÀһƫ£¬Ò»Î*žéÈfÎïһƫ¡£ÓÞÕßžéÒ»Îïһƫ£¬¶ø×ÔÒ*žéÖªµÀ£*ŸoÖªÒ²¡£
×÷Õß(Author)£ºtypo corrected - 2002/01/31 15:41:27
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ÖйúÈËÊÇÔõôÁË£¿£¿£¿£¿
×÷Õß(Author)£ºJUST - 2002/01/31 00:04:07
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It's a great endowment for this forum if we have a native English speaker as a frequent visitor since no one else can be more authoritative for the accuracy and approppriateness on the use of English .But it's way too far to find fault with his command of Chinese.If his Chinese become flawless,it is really a great shame for all Chinese people.The logic counldn't be simpler but I just dont understand why someone is always misleading readers like a redneck.
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You twist words, and your mind sucks.
×÷Õß(Author)£ºPeriod - 2002/01/31 01:38:25
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//It's a great endowment for this forum if we have a native English speaker as a frequent visitor since no one else can be more authoritative for the accuracy and approppriateness on the use of English .//
Truth is impartial to everyone in spite of nationalities and command of languages. CEG himself thus proposes. Why do you misconstruse his point?
//But it's way too far to find fault with his command of Chinese.If his Chinese become flawless,it is really a great shame for all Chinese people.//
Why would allthe Chinese be ashamed of that? Couldn't and wouldn't they be happier?
//The logic counldn't be simpler but I just dont understand why someone is always misleading readers like a redneck.//
The fact can't be more simple. You twist words, and your mind sucks!
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ÇëPERIODÈý˼
×÷Õß(Author)£ºJUST - 2002/02/02 02:45:08
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ÎÒ»¹ÊǾö¶¨ÓúºÓÎÒÃǹ²Í¬µÄĸÓ°ÑÒ»¸ö¼òµ¥µÄµÀÀíÔÙÖØÉêÒ»±é£¬ËäÈ»ÕâÊÇÒ»¸öÁ¬Ð¡º¢¶¼Ã÷°×µÄµÀÀí¡£
È˵ĵڶþÓïÑÔˮƽ£¬ÓÀÔ¶´ï²»µ½ËûµÄĸÓïˮƽ¡£·ñÔò£¬ÄDz»³ÆÆäΪĸÓï¡£¾ÙÀý˵Ã÷£¬CEGµÄººÓïÔٺã¬Ò²²»»á³¬¹ýËûµÄÓ¢Óïˮƽ¡£ËûµÄÓ¢ÓïˮƽºÃ¹ý±¾ÂÛ̳µÄÈκÎÒ»¸öÖйúÈË£¬Õâ²»»áÓÐÈË·´¶Ô£¨Ò²ÐíÄãÊǸöÀýÍ⣬µ«¶Ô´ËÎÒûʲô¸ü¶à¿ÉÒÔºÍÄãÕùÂ۵ģ©¡£ÎÒÉÏÎĵÄÂÛµã½ÔÔ´ÓÚ´Ë¡£ÎÒÃǵ±È»²»±Ø¸ã¸öÈ˳ç°Ý£¬ÈËÎÞÍêÈË£¬CEGÒ²²»¿ÉÄÜ·²Ê¶¼ÕýÈ·£¬µ«ËûµÄÓ¢ÓïˮƽºÃ¹ýÎÒÃÇ´ó¼Ò£¬ËùÒÔÎÒÃÇÒªÐéÐÄѧϰ¡£Óв»Í¬µÄ¹Ûµã¿ÉÒÔÌᣬµ«ÎÒÈÏΪ£¬¹ý¶àµÄÖ¸ÔðËûµÄººÓïˮƽ£¬²¢²»Ð¼ÓÚËûµÄÓ¢Óïˮƽ£¬ÔòʵÔÚÊDZ¾Ä©µ¹Öã¬ÁíÍâÒ²ÈÃÍâ¹úÅóÓÑЦ»°ÎÒÃÇÖйúÈËС¶Ç¼¦³¦£¬»òÐíÊDz»Í¨ÇéÀí¡£ÇëÄãÊÕ»ØÄãµÄTWIST ÓëSUCK Á½´Ê¡£I KEEP MY MIND OPEN AND WORDS ALIVE¡£
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I am afraid I simply failed to see the logic of what's going on .
×÷Õß(Author)£ºYeti - 2002/01/30 21:12:30
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In any academic discussion, whether they are serious or half-hearted, there
are always agreements and disagreements. There are always people who agree
with one another and there are those who vehemently oppose. But
disagreement does not mean "detest." Having been here for close to 3 years,
I simply failed to see how some one can claim that GY and YC "detest"
someone else simply by agreeing or disagreeing on an academic matter. Detest is a pretty strong word : something like I spite into your face kind
of thing. Are you sure you really mean that or just to say it so as to solicit maximum emotional response from the general audience in order to advance some ulterior motive of your own.
Equally invalid is the blending of someone who happens to agree with,
or show admiration of, somene else's opinion or work as being a mindless
worshipper of a heathen god. No sir ! Everyone have the right
to heap tons of praise on anyone they feel deserving of their admiration
as long as they do not try to put someone else
down in the same breadth
So bring on the praises but cut back on the insults. Thanks.
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a SIMPLIER proof: ÄܰÑ"¸©Ê×Ìû¶ú£¬ÎåÌåͶµØ"Á½¸ö¸ÐÇéÉ«²Ê½ØÈ»Ïà·´µÄ³ÉÓïÕâôºúÂÒÁ¬ÓõÄ, ÖÐÎıØÈ»²»¼°¸ñ, ûÓÐʲô¿ÉÒÔÉÌÁ¿µÄ!
×÷Õß(Author)£ºÒ»¸±Ê®×ãÅ«²ÅÏà - 2002/01/30 21:35:35
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2. ÄܶÔ"JUST"µÄÔÌùÕâôºúÂÒ¸ÅÀ¨ÖÐÐÄ˼ÏëµÄ, Сѧ&³õÖÐÓïÎͼ°×ѧÁË.
3. ΨһÏëµ½ÁËËïºï×ÓµÄÄò, ¾Ý˵³ÔϱãÄܶ¸ÔöÓïÑÔÎÄ×Ö±í´ïÄÜÁ¦, ÎÞ·ÇÏÔʾһÏÂÕâ¸öÈËÏëÒ»²½µÇÌìÏëµÃ·èÁË, Á¬ËïºïµÄÄò¶¼Ô¸ÒâÒ»ÊÔ, Èç¹ûÄÜÕÒµ½µÄ»°. ¿ÉϧÇó½âÍѵÿ¿×Ô¼º, ¹¦·òµ½ÁË, Ë®µ½Çþ³É.
Èç¹ûÓ²Òª·Ö±æCEGµÄÖÐÎÄÌØÉ«: ÄǾÍÊÇËûµÄÈÏÕæ, ¶Ôºº×Ö±ÈÒ»°ãÈË"ò¯³Ï", Óöµ½²»¶®µÄ¾¡Á¿ÔÚSLÀï²éÑéȨÍþ½âÊÍ, ²¢·ÇÓÐÌì²Å»òÉî²»¿É¼°.
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I still fail to see your point.
×÷Õß(Author)£ºYeti - 2002/01/30 23:31:47
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Can you explain it to me some more, because I'm kind of a slow
learner.
If it is all right to ±çÂÛÓ¢ Òë ºº with a "ÀÏÖÐ" , why is it not right to ±çÂÛººÒëÓ¢ with a "ÀÏÍâ" ?
And if ±çÂÛÓ¢ Òë ºº with a "ÀÏÖÐ is a natural thing to do in
an academic discussion, why is it "±çÂÛººÒëÓ¢ with a "ÀÏÍâ" is considered
as "¸úÀÏÍâ±øÈÐÏà¼û" ?
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The ordering of these messages can be quite misleading. My message is a reply to "supporter."
×÷Õß(Author)£ºYeti - 2002/01/30 23:33:52
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Ç¿ÖÐ×ÔÓÐÇ¿ÖÐÊÖ¡£Îª¶ø²»Õù²ÅÊÇÕæÕý¾³½ç¡£¸únative-speakerÓÐʲôºÃÕùµÄ£¿ÖйúÈËÊÇÔõôÁË£¿£¿£¿
×÷Õß(Author)£ºsupporter of CEG - 2002/01/31 00:11:17
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Äãµ½µ×ÊÇË£¿Ïë˵ʲô£¿±ð¹ÕÍäĨ½ÇµØ¹¥»÷±ðÈË£¡ÕâÀïûÈËdetest CEG£¬µ¹ÊÇÄãdetestÎÒÃÇ´ó»ï¶ù£¡ÇëÄã±ðÔÚÕâ¶ùÌô²¦Àë¼ä¡£
×÷Õß(Author)£ºLast Hermit - 2002/01/30 06:50:21
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CEGµ½±¾Ì³À´ÎÒÃÇ´ó¼Ò¶¼»¶Ó£¬²¢ÇÒ´òÐĵ×Àïϲ»¶Ëû£¬ÒòΪËû¸ÒÑÔ£¬²»ÏñÄãÔڴ˲¶·ç×½Ó°£¬Ðſڴƻƣ¡
Ðв»¸ÄÃû£¬×ø²»¸ÄÐÕ£ºLast Hermit
---------------------------
Meunique
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ÒþÐÖ¿´ÎÊÌâÂù¼âÈñµÄÂ
×÷Õß(Author)£ºÑྦྷ - 2002/01/31 01:29:32
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ÎҵĸоõÊÇ£¬¼ÈÈ»JUST¾ýÊÓÂÛ̳Ϊ¡°ÀÖÍÁ¡±£¬Ï£Íû¡°¾»»¯ÂÛ̳֮·ç¡±£¬×ܲ»¸ÃÐÄ»³¶ñÒâ°É£¿È»¶øÒ²ÐíÊÇÒòΪ³õÀ´Õ§µ½£¬¶ÔijЩ±ÊÃûºÍÍøÓѲ»Ì«ÊìϤ£¬Òò¶ø²úÉúһЩÎó½â£¬ÓÐЩ»°ËµµÃ±È½ÏÁýͳ¡¢·º·º£¬ËùÒÔÈÝÒ×Îóµ¼¶ÁÕߣ¬µ¼ÖÂÀÏÓÑÐÂÅóµÄÕù¶·¡£²»¹ý£¬¹ýÈ¥ºÍÑÛǰµÄÊÂʵ¶¼Ê¹ÎÒÏàÐÅ£¬´æÐIJ»Á¼µÄÈËÊDz»»áµÃ³ÑµÄ£¬Ïà·´Ö»»á×ÔÈ¡ÆäÈè¡£
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ÔÚ´Ë˳±ã¶ÔDavid/Auditor¾ýÓÐÒ»½¨Ò飺ÄúµÄ²»ÉÙÌûÎĺÜÓмÛÖµ¡£ ÄÄŽöΪ·½±ã´ó¼ÒËÑѰÆð¼û£¬ÊÇ·ñÒ²ÇëÄú°ÑÄúµÄÖÚ¶à±ÊÃûÉÔ΢¼õÉٹ̶¨Ò»Ï£¿ÓÐÒ»´ÎÎÒÊÔͼËÑË÷ÎÞÃûÊÏ£¬Ò»Ïµõ½¼¸Ç§Ìû£¬ºÜÍ·ÌÛ¡£ÁíÍâÒ²ºÃ±ÜÃâ¶ÔÂÛ̳һ֪°ë½âµÄÈ˰Ѳ»ÂÛʲôĪÃûÆäÃîµÄ±ÊÃû¶¼°²µ½ÄúÍ·ÉÏ¡£´¿´âÖ»Êǽ¨Ò飬½ö¹©²Î¿¼¡£
Good day/ Good night!
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Hey, how are you doing with your PL? Where is the forum for you guys to discuss
×÷Õß(Author)£ºpoems? - 2002/01/31 13:04:49
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Sorry I'm so slow, but what's "PL"?
×÷Õß(Author)£ºÑྦྷ - 2002/01/31 21:03:16
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Where to discuss poems? Right here, of course.:-) Regretful that I don't have much time for that now. But I'll try.
Thanks for mentioning poems!
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I thought it was somewhere else.
×÷Õß(Author)£ºWAX - 2002/01/31 22:28:53
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I am sure you know what PL is.
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I'm totally confused. Hope you didn't mix me up with someone else?
×÷Õß(Author)£ºyj - 2002/02/01 01:41:52
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Last time you pinpointed out the source of a passage
×÷Õß(Author)£ºthat I quoted to you. - 2002/02/01 09:30:43
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People here call the book PL (The Prelude), from which I quoted. Sorry to have confused you.
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Ah, you mean that poem. ÎÒÊÇÕæ²»ÖªµÀÔõô°ì:-)
×÷Õß(Author)£ºÑྦྷ - 2002/02/01 16:58:05
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I definitely love it. But translating such a long poem would be a very exhausting job - I'm sure you know this way better than I do. That's why I was kind of hesitant at starting it. But I think I'll try when I can, definitely.
Don't you want to post your translation first?:-)
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Ah, you mean that poem. ÎÒÊÇÕæ²»ÖªµÀÔõô°ì:-)
×÷Õß(Author)£ºÑྦྷ - 2002/02/02 21:58:22
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×÷Õß(Author)£ºÑྦྷ - 2002/02/01 16:58:05 ***
I definitely love it. But translating such a long poem would be a very exhausting job - I'm sure you know this way better than I do. That's why I was kind of hesitant at starting it. But I think I'll try when I can, definitely.
Don't you want to post your translation first?:-)
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Let me tell you one more thing.
×÷Õß(Author)£ºWAX - 2002/02/02 22:00:04
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×÷Õß(Author)£ºWAX - 2002/02/02 21:16:45 ***
Expressions like "a feeling and a love," " a motion and a spirit" belong to "hendiadys," a figure of speech that refers to one single thing with two words. Mr. Liang Shi-qiu didnot seem to know this basic literary device in his translation. Sometimes I wonder if people like him had really studied English poetry before they translated it.
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Well, at least I can tell I hadn't studied English poetry before I tried.:-)
×÷Õß(Author)£ºÑྦྷ - 2002/02/03 02:03:51
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Thanks for your point. Do you mind recommending some readings on English poetry and Wordsworth for beginners like me? I'm not sure if I'll have time to read them soon. But it would be good to know what I should look for when chances arise. Thanks!
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The Art and Craft of Poetry
×÷Õß(Author)£ºWAX - 2002/02/03 12:27:50
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Michael Bugeja teaches people how to write poems?
×÷Õß(Author)£ºÑྦྷ - 2002/02/03 15:13:05
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Thanks for your recommendation. Read some of the sample pages at Amazon. It may not be appropriate to pass rash judgment, but if I have to tell honestly how I feel about the book, I'd say my intuition simply seems to defy this kind of instruction which aims at teaching people how to be creative as if creativity can be achieved by following some rules. I'm aware this could be my biased opinion. Hope my straightforwardness won't offend you. I just think the best way to show one's respect to someone else is speak honestly instead of passing some casual and meaningless compliment or flattery.
My sincere thanks again!
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I appreciate your straight talk. It's a matter of different opionions. I don't mind it at all.
×÷Õß(Author)£ºWAX - 2002/02/03 18:31:48
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In my opionion, one needs to know how something works before one can really appraise its values and/or aesthetics.Books like that teach people about the mechanics of writng not the creativeness in writing.Another book that I would recommend is "Poetry Speaks."
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Yeah, I actually agree with you.
×÷Õß(Author)£ºÑྦྷ - 2002/02/04 11:53:22
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I'll keep Bugeja's name in mind. And I look forward to hearing great poets reading their work. лл£¡
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RE: Ç¿ÖÐ×ÔÓÐÇ¿ÖÐÊÖ¡£Based on additional posting from Ò°²Ý on CEG's determined effort
×÷Õß(Author)£º - 2002/01/30 10:07:51
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in learning Chinese, I take back my original SIGH on possible future cannibalization in the international arena for C-E/E-C translation work. I poured out empathy due to my Chinese ˼Ïë¸ÐÇéµÄ»ù×¼µã, but I'll honor more for those hard workers of any nationality.
In my opinion, CEG probably has spent some 20,000 - 30,000 hours polishing his Chinese language skills.
For those who absurdly asserts that CEG's Chinese is BETTER than natives, I would not label them Ìô²¦Àë¼ä for the following reasons:
1. heroes love heroes, any projection of narrower minds is doomed to fail;
2. the would-be "Ìô²¦Àë¼ä" candidates have EXCEPTIONALLY low Chinese language skills (possible tuition refund from their Middle School instructors on Chinese Language & Literature is hereby solemnly suggested.)
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ÇëYETI×¢Ò⣨ÎÒÔÒÔΪÄãµÄÃû×ÖÊÇ£ºÒ°Ìߣ¬»òÒ¹ÌäµÄÆ´Òô£©:ÖÂÃüµÄǰÌá´íÎó
×÷Õß(Author)£ºJUST - 2002/01/31 01:08:14
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If you have any basic knowledge of translation at all.You will not be surprised to find that in any formal occasions, the interpreter only translate his native tongue into the target language despite of the fact the translation in many cases are not so up to the taste of native speakers.But that's the rule of the game.The reason is simple: the translator has no impediment in apprehending his mother tongue.BUT HE COULD NEVER BE 100% SURE OF THE FOREIGN LANGUAGE£º
It really doesn't make any sense to FOLLOW YOUR ARGUMENT£º
AS YOU SAID£º If it is all right to ±çÂÛÓ¢ Òë ºº with a "ÀÏÖÐ" , why is it not right to ±çÂÛººÒëÓ¢ with a "ÀÏÍâ" ?
YES IT IS ALRIGHT BUT NOT APPROPRIATE¡£
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Can a native speaker be 100 percent sure of his mother
×÷Õß(Author)£ºtongue? - 2002/01/31 01:19:26
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stick to the issue pls! no place for u to base ur personal attacks on sb else's penname!
×÷Õß(Author)£ºDD - 2002/01/31 02:43:07
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No, I don't. That's why I am here.
×÷Õß(Author)£ºYeti - 2002/01/31 12:18:53
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Re: "If you have any basic knowledge of translation at all." . You are right on
the button. No , I don't. I do NOT have ANY basic knowledge of translation
at all. I am neither a trained professional nor do I have any formal trainning
in Chinese and English translation beyound the regular (general) high school
level. So you are absolutely correct.
I must beg your pardon, Sir or Madame, because I did not know that you Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms "Just" is the same person as "Supporter." I thought those two are different people.
My point of " If it is all right to ±çÂÛÓ¢ Òë ºº with a "ÀÏÖÐ" , why is it not right to ±çÂÛººÒë Ó¢ with a "ÀÏÍâ" ? " was addressed to "Supporter" who claimed that GY and YC "detest" CEG simply because they put forward a different point of view.
But I must thank you , nevertheless, for agreeing with me on : "YES IT IS ALRIGHT", although I am at a loss to see why it is "Inappropiate."
Is it "inappropiate" to discuss and bring forth different points on
view on how to intreprete and translate something within the bounds of
a "discussion forum" ? Please elaborate.
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