请高手赐教下文译法：
作为一种职业，翻译势必引起同行的竞争，但作为一种乐趣则大可不必兵戎相间。自古道：强中自有强中手。为而不争才是真正境界。我们不可能要求人人都有仙风道骨，但夜郎自大者堂而皇之，登堂入室岂不让天下人耻笑？论坛既是一方乐土，那么净化论坛之风，则是每位访客。责无旁贷之职。
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跟贴目录 (List of Followups):
- CEG is the best expert by far on this board, far better than the so-called experts 古月, laoliu, etc. - admirer of CEG 20020130051912
- 请不专心学习者一边去！学习就学习，搞分帮结派干嘛！！！ - dvd 20020130090144
- "Who you calling' an expert?" - laoliu 20020130151523
- "Know 'm sayin'?" - laoliu 20020130152119
- 纯粹"个人写作风格"的, 我从西洋传统, 三缄其口, 虽然有的风格更引人入胜一些. - 20020130161510
- 多读的 should be: 多读点; 耙梳得中国人 should be: 耙梳得比中国人 - 20020130162927
- Listen to yourself for a while: - laoliu 20020130180413
- 我已经100%地一分为二地看待了, 我是完全靠语感判定CEG的nativelikeliness, 不象某些人原本和他就有私交. - 真不明白我的非正式评价如此举足轻重 20020130182802
- 我已经100%地一分为二地看待了, 我是完全靠语感判定CEG的nativelikeliness, 不象某些人原本和他就有私交. - 真不明白我的非正式评价如此举足轻重 20020130182802
- 多读的 should be: 多读点; 耙梳得中国人 should be: 耙梳得比中国人 - 20020130162927
- "Know 'm sayin'?" - laoliu 20020130152119
- 请不专心学习者一边去！学习就学习，搞分帮结派干嘛！！！ - dvd 20020130090144
- I see 古月, laoliu et al. detest CEG, the brightest star on this board, but their rage is nothing but impotent rage only. - admirer of CEG 20020130053114
- I think you are putting words into other people's mouths. - Yeti 20020130121226
- 因为他们不象JUST那样对CEG俯首帖耳，五体投地，还假装有学问，居然跟老外兵刃相见，辩论汉译英。难道不是夜郎自大？！ - supporter of CEG 20020130174939
- CEG不是也有吃不准汉语成语"仁至义尽"(在和"悬崖勒马"排比连用时)英译感情色彩的时候吗(PC Correct/incorrectness)? 母语是汉语的在诸如此类的地方吃不准的绝少. - 20020130181321
- 你是谁？为什么不用笔名？莫非就是那“堂而皇之，登堂入室的夜郎自大者”？！ - supporter of CEG 20020130182953
- Credential: 《Century Dictionary》(世纪词典) 网络版 online revision project CITATION CONTRIBUTOR (业余) - 也是老中, 任你猜 20020130190532
- 常达 should be 长达 - 20020130190727
- 也不过是个老中。还论不到你comment on CEG's Chinese!中国人是不是都有毛病？ - supporter of CEG 20020131012511
- "愚人以一物一偏而自以为知道." - 汝智可及, 愚不可及焉 20020131134105
- *f物為道一偏，一�*為萬物一偏。愚者為一物一偏，而自�*為知道�*無知也。 - typo corrected 20020131154127
- *f物為道一偏，一�*為萬物一偏。愚者為一物一偏，而自�*為知道�*無知也。 - typo corrected 20020131154127
- "愚人以一物一偏而自以为知道." - 汝智可及, 愚不可及焉 20020131134105
- 常达 should be 长达 - 20020130190727
- Credential: 《Century Dictionary》(世纪词典) 网络版 online revision project CITATION CONTRIBUTOR (业余) - 也是老中, 任你猜 20020130190532
- 中国人是怎么了？？？？ - JUST 20020131000407
- You twist words, and your mind sucks. - Period 20020131013825
- 请PERIOD三思 - JUST 20020202024508
- 请PERIOD三思 - JUST 20020202024508
- You twist words, and your mind sucks. - Period 20020131013825
- 你是谁？为什么不用笔名？莫非就是那“堂而皇之，登堂入室的夜郎自大者”？！ - supporter of CEG 20020130182953
- I am afraid I simply failed to see the logic of what's going on . - Yeti 20020130211230
- a SIMPLIER proof: 能把"俯首帖耳，五体投地"两个感情色彩截然相反的成语这么胡乱连用的, 中文必然不及格, 没有什么可以商量的! - 一副十足奴才相 20020130213535
- a SIMPLIER proof: 能把"俯首帖耳，五体投地"两个感情色彩截然相反的成语这么胡乱连用的, 中文必然不及格, 没有什么可以商量的! - 一副十足奴才相 20020130213535
- I still fail to see your point. - Yeti 20020130233147
- The ordering of these messages can be quite misleading. My message is a reply to "supporter." - Yeti 20020130233352
- 强中自有强中手。为而不争才是真正境界。跟native-speaker有什么好争的？中国人是怎么了？？？ - supporter of CEG 20020131001117
- The ordering of these messages can be quite misleading. My message is a reply to "supporter." - Yeti 20020130233352
- CEG不是也有吃不准汉语成语"仁至义尽"(在和"悬崖勒马"排比连用时)英译感情色彩的时候吗(PC Correct/incorrectness)? 母语是汉语的在诸如此类的地方吃不准的绝少. - 20020130181321
- 因为他们不象JUST那样对CEG俯首帖耳，五体投地，还假装有学问，居然跟老外兵刃相见，辩论汉译英。难道不是夜郎自大？！ - supporter of CEG 20020130174939
- I think you are putting words into other people's mouths. - Yeti 20020130121226
- 你到底是谁？想说什么？别拐弯抹角地攻击别人！这里没人detest CEG，倒是你detest我们大伙儿！请你别在这儿挑拨离间。 - Last Hermit 20020130065021
- 隐兄看问题蛮尖锐的嘛！ - 燕晶 20020131012932
- Hey, how are you doing with your PL? Where is the forum for you guys to discuss - poems? 20020131130449
- Sorry I'm so slow, but what's "PL"? - 燕晶 20020131210316
- I thought it was somewhere else. - WAX 20020131222853
- I'm totally confused. Hope you didn't mix me up with someone else? - yj 20020201014152
- Last time you pinpointed out the source of a passage - that I quoted to you. 20020201093043
- Ah, you mean that poem. 我是真不知道怎么办:-) - 燕晶 20020201165805
- Ah, you mean that poem. 我是真不知道怎么办:-) - 燕晶 20020201165805
- Last time you pinpointed out the source of a passage - that I quoted to you. 20020201093043
- I'm totally confused. Hope you didn't mix me up with someone else? - yj 20020201014152
- I thought it was somewhere else. - WAX 20020131222853
- Ah, you mean that poem. 我是真不知道怎么办:-) - 燕晶 20020202215822
- Let me tell you one more thing. - WAX 20020202220004
- Well, at least I can tell I hadn't studied English poetry before I tried.:-) - 燕晶 20020203020351
- The Art and Craft of Poetry - WAX 20020203122750
- Michael Bugeja teaches people how to write poems? - 燕晶 20020203151305
- I appreciate your straight talk. It's a matter of different opionions. I don't mind it at all. - WAX 20020203183148
- Yeah, I actually agree with you. - 燕晶 20020204115322
- Yeah, I actually agree with you. - 燕晶 20020204115322
- I appreciate your straight talk. It's a matter of different opionions. I don't mind it at all. - WAX 20020203183148
- Michael Bugeja teaches people how to write poems? - 燕晶 20020203151305
- The Art and Craft of Poetry - WAX 20020203122750
- Well, at least I can tell I hadn't studied English poetry before I tried.:-) - 燕晶 20020203020351
- Let me tell you one more thing. - WAX 20020202220004
- Sorry I'm so slow, but what's "PL"? - 燕晶 20020131210316
- Hey, how are you doing with your PL? Where is the forum for you guys to discuss - poems? 20020131130449
- 隐兄看问题蛮尖锐的嘛！ - 燕晶 20020131012932
- RE: 强中自有强中手。Based on additional posting from 野草 on CEG's determined effort - 20020130100751
- 请YETI注意（我原以为你的名字是：野踢，或夜啼的拼音）:致命的前提错误 - JUST 20020131010814
- Can a native speaker be 100 percent sure of his mother - tongue? 20020131011926
- stick to the issue pls! no place for u to base ur personal attacks on sb else's penname! - DD 20020131024307
- No, I don't. That's why I am here. - Yeti 20020131121853
- Can a native speaker be 100 percent sure of his mother - tongue? 20020131011926
CEG is the best expert by far on this board, far better than the so-called experts 古月, laoliu, etc.
作者(Author)：admirer of CEG - 2002/01/30 05:19:12 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
请不专心学习者一边去！学习就学习，搞分帮结派干嘛！！！
作者(Author)：dvd - 2002/01/30 09:01:44 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
"Who you calling' an expert?"
作者(Author)：laoliu - 2002/01/30 15:15:23 ***您要是读读我上帖的历史，您就知道我的水平几何。语法、词汇、句法，时时闹笑话，有这样的专家吗？且不提还有一次向人求饶呢（“前辈息怒”云云）！ :-)
我和 CEG 没什么过不去，除了觉得他似乎把脱机 (“offline”是也) 的个人情绪带到论坛上来，刺了他一下。No hard feelings, right?
不过，CEG 没上几帖，就被大家夸成这样，我认为是根据不足——除非你们有别的途径确认他的水平。CEG 的一段 transactional text 竟被 David 誉为“美文”，真不知道他在讲什么。
"Kown 'm sayin'?"
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"Know 'm sayin'?"
作者(Author)：laoliu - 2002/01/30 15:21:19 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
纯粹"个人写作风格"的, 我从西洋传统, 三缄其口, 虽然有的风格更引人入胜一些.
作者(Author)： - 2002/01/30 16:15:10 ***CEG的那一段, 尽管是 transactional text, 但是"遣词造句"方面确与native无异, 所以有给人耳目一新之感. 我只是说看到了3位在信手写来仍然是native-like, 而不是评价"文章深度, 观点是否值得商榷....其余的总有各种各样的蛛丝马迹显示出作者是non native. 同样, CEG的中文和native Chinese 就是不完全一样, 尽管没有任何明显的词法语法错误.
罗马教皇每年用多种语言向世界天主教信徒祝福时, 一次也只能说一种语言, 即只能针对信徒中的一小部分. 网上各色人等, 志趣, 程度, 观点...不同, 一副帖子不可能同时对任何人都适用, 让甲满意的东西, 乙可能已经快听出老茧了, 丙因为持对立观点, 甚至要到勃然大怒的程度... 究竟是私心还是学见不一, 时间长了, 慢慢会清楚.
要说观点不同, 我对以下说法有保留:
1. 但是，以为通过后天的努力就可以迎头赶上，完全达到L1的水平，那是自欺欺人的了。 (CEG)
2. 您说永远达不到L1水平，这当然是大实话 (野草)
3. 当代的东西易补，成了历史的东西，错过了就不容易抓回来了 (野草)
原因: 汉语的书面表达和口头是脱节的, 想要在汉语书面表达上达到L1, 多读的古文经典就行了.
对以下说法可以发挥一下:
4. 大概就同这里一些“老中”对英语的语法结构等等抠得比英语“老外”都深、写出来的英语甚至“太正确”差不多。(野草)
发挥: 也就同日本人把汉语研究耙梳得中国人还细还准确的根本道理如出一辙.
对以下说法的[煽情性"演绎方式"]彻底否定而且极为反感:
5. 大概因为世人不论种族都总还有脸皮吧，丢脸 （lose face） 爱面子（face-saving） 脸皮厚（thick-faced） 等等应该是不难理解和体会的。说不定哪天 Webster’s 都要把这 thick-face 收录讷。
原因: 词语定义不是宗教教义解说(hermeneutics), 不是仁者见仁, 智者见智的东东. 高考语文如果考词语解释, 难道也允许阅卷老师在评分上掺杂主观印象不成?
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多读的 should be: 多读点; 耙梳得中国人 should be: 耙梳得比中国人
作者(Author)： - 2002/01/30 16:29:27 ***对以下说法的[煽情性"演绎方式"] should be 对以下[煽情性"演绎方式"]
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Listen to yourself for a while:
作者(Author)：laoliu - 2002/01/30 18:04:13 ***>>CEG的那一段, 尽管是 transactional text, 但是"遣词造句"方面确与native无异, 所以有给人耳目一新之感
Gosh! He is a native English speaker, and a highly educated one, too. I would expect nothing less from him.
Look, I'm not saying CEG isn't an excellent language expert - I'm sure he is - it's just that he hasn't established himself on this forum yet. What's the hurry to heap praises on him like that? I'll wait.
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我已经100%地一分为二地看待了, 我是完全靠语感判定CEG的nativelikeliness, 不象某些人原本和他就有私交.
作者(Author)：真不明白我的非正式评价如此举足轻重 - 2002/01/30 18:28:02 ***(看过利马窦, James Legge, James Hart等人的汉文书信奏折等, 还不至于眼皮子浅到那步田地)
想想我也是后怕, 万一我将来不小心错说一句, 说不定会被人放下油锅.
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I see 古月, laoliu et al. detest CEG, the brightest star on this board, but their rage is nothing but impotent rage only.
作者(Author)：admirer of CEG - 2002/01/30 05:31:14 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
I think you are putting words into other people's mouths.
作者(Author)：Yeti - 2002/01/30 12:12:26 ***On the other hand, it could be because I am dumb, numb and insensitive and that is why I failed to see
what you saw. I do not see any of your so-called "detest" coming from any of the people you mentioned.
May be you are very good in reading between the lines , even when there are nothing between the lines.
Having read many of CEG's messages, I doubt he would have the same narrow vision as you do.
If you are a true "admirer of CEG" , you would not have said what you had.
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因为他们不象JUST那样对CEG俯首帖耳，五体投地，还假装有学问，居然跟老外兵刃相见，辩论汉译英。难道不是夜郎自大？！
作者(Author)：supporter of CEG - 2002/01/30 17:49:39 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
CEG不是也有吃不准汉语成语"仁至义尽"(在和"悬崖勒马"排比连用时)英译感情色彩的时候吗(PC Correct/incorrectness)? 母语是汉语的在诸如此类的地方吃不准的绝少.
作者(Author)： - 2002/01/30 18:13:21 ***有谁能万能? 又有谁能保证凡是精读过的东西(无论是母语或外文)理解正确率就一定在97%以上?--除非每一个似是而非的地方全部在SL里找到权威解释.
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你是谁？为什么不用笔名？莫非就是那“堂而皇之，登堂入室的夜郎自大者”？！
作者(Author)：supporter of CEG - 2002/01/30 18:29:53 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
Credential: 《Century Dictionary》(世纪词典) 网络版 online revision project CITATION CONTRIBUTOR (业余)
作者(Author)：也是老中, 任你猜 - 2002/01/30 19:05:32 ***《Century Dictionary 世纪词典》是什么东东, 你去做做research再来发话不迟.
老板: Jeffery Triggs, Prof. of English @ Rutgers Univ., 任OED 美国组 主编之一 常达12年.
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常达 should be 长达
作者(Author)： - 2002/01/30 19:07:27 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
也不过是个老中。还论不到你comment on CEG's Chinese!中国人是不是都有毛病？
作者(Author)：supporter of CEG - 2002/01/31 01:25:11 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
"愚人以一物一偏而自以为知道."
作者(Author)：汝智可及, 愚不可及焉 - 2002/01/31 13:41:05 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
*f物為道一偏，一�*為萬物一偏。愚者為一物一偏，而自�*為知道�*無知也。
作者(Author)：typo corrected - 2002/01/31 15:41:27 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
中国人是怎么了？？？？
作者(Author)：JUST - 2002/01/31 00:04:07 ***It's a great endowment for this forum if we have a native English speaker as a frequent visitor since no one else can be more authoritative for the accuracy and approppriateness on the use of English .But it's way too far to find fault with his command of Chinese.If his Chinese become flawless,it is really a great shame for all Chinese people.The logic counldn't be simpler but I just dont understand why someone is always misleading readers like a redneck.
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You twist words, and your mind sucks.
作者(Author)：Period - 2002/01/31 01:38:25 ***//It's a great endowment for this forum if we have a native English speaker as a frequent visitor since no one else can be more authoritative for the accuracy and approppriateness on the use of English .//
Truth is impartial to everyone in spite of nationalities and command of languages. CEG himself thus proposes. Why do you misconstruse his point?
//But it's way too far to find fault with his command of Chinese.If his Chinese become flawless,it is really a great shame for all Chinese people.//
Why would allthe Chinese be ashamed of that? Couldn't and wouldn't they be happier?
//The logic counldn't be simpler but I just dont understand why someone is always misleading readers like a redneck.//
The fact can't be more simple. You twist words, and your mind sucks!
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请PERIOD三思
作者(Author)：JUST - 2002/02/02 02:45:08 ***我还是决定用汉语，我们共同的母语，把一个简单的道理再重申一遍，虽然这是一个连小孩都明白的道理。
人的第二语言水平，永远达不到他的母语水平。否则，那不称其为母语。举例说明，CEG的汉语再好，也不会超过他的英语水平。他的英语水平好过本论坛的任何一个中国人，这不会有人反对（也许你是个例外，但对此我没什么更多可以和你争论的）。我上文的论点皆源于此。我们当然不必搞个人崇拜，人无完人，CEG也不可能凡事都正确，但他的英语水平好过我们大家，所以我们要虚心学习。有不同的观点可以提，但我认为，过多的指责他的汉语水平，并不屑于他的英语水平，则实在是本末倒置，另外也让外国朋友笑话我们中国人小肚鸡肠，或许是不通情理。请你收回你的TWIST 与SUCK 两词。I KEEP MY MIND OPEN AND WORDS ALIVE。
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I am afraid I simply failed to see the logic of what's going on .
作者(Author)：Yeti - 2002/01/30 21:12:30 ***In any academic discussion, whether they are serious or half-hearted, there
are always agreements and disagreements. There are always people who agree
with one another and there are those who vehemently oppose. But
disagreement does not mean "detest." Having been here for close to 3 years,
I simply failed to see how some one can claim that GY and YC "detest"
someone else simply by agreeing or disagreeing on an academic matter. Detest is a pretty strong word : something like I spite into your face kind
of thing. Are you sure you really mean that or just to say it so as to solicit maximum emotional response from the general audience in order to advance some ulterior motive of your own.
Equally invalid is the blending of someone who happens to agree with,
or show admiration of, somene else's opinion or work as being a mindless
worshipper of a heathen god. No sir ! Everyone have the right
to heap tons of praise on anyone they feel deserving of their admiration
as long as they do not try to put someone else
down in the same breadth
So bring on the praises but cut back on the insults. Thanks.
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a SIMPLIER proof: 能把"俯首帖耳，五体投地"两个感情色彩截然相反的成语这么胡乱连用的, 中文必然不及格, 没有什么可以商量的!
作者(Author)：一副十足奴才相 - 2002/01/30 21:35:35 ***2. 能对"JUST"的原贴这么胡乱概括中心思想的, 小学&初中语文都白学了.
3. 唯一想到了孙猴子的尿, 据说吃下便能陡增语言文字表达能力, 无非显示一下这个人想一步登天想得疯了, 连孙猴的尿都愿意一试, 如果能找到的话. 可惜求解脱得靠自己, 功夫到了, 水到渠成.
如果硬要分辨CEG的中文特色: 那就是他的认真, 对汉字比一般人"虔诚", 遇到不懂的尽量在SL里查验权威解释, 并非有天才或深不可及.
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I still fail to see your point.
作者(Author)：Yeti - 2002/01/30 23:31:47 ***Can you explain it to me some more, because I'm kind of a slow
learner.
If it is all right to 辩论英 译 汉 with a "老中" , why is it not right to 辩论汉译英 with a "老外" ?
And if 辩论英 译 汉 with a "老中 is a natural thing to do in
an academic discussion, why is it "辩论汉译英 with a "老外" is considered
as "跟老外兵刃相见" ?
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The ordering of these messages can be quite misleading. My message is a reply to "supporter."
作者(Author)：Yeti - 2002/01/30 23:33:52 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
强中自有强中手。为而不争才是真正境界。跟native-speaker有什么好争的？中国人是怎么了？？？
作者(Author)：supporter of CEG - 2002/01/31 00:11:17 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
你到底是谁？想说什么？别拐弯抹角地攻击别人！这里没人detest CEG，倒是你detest我们大伙儿！请你别在这儿挑拨离间。
作者(Author)：Last Hermit - 2002/01/30 06:50:21 ***CEG到本坛来我们大家都欢迎，并且打心底里喜欢他，因为他敢言，不像你在此捕风捉影，信口雌黄！
行不改名，坐不改姓：Last Hermit
---------------------------
Meunique
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隐兄看问题蛮尖锐的嘛！
作者(Author)：燕晶 - 2002/01/31 01:29:32 ***我的感觉是，既然JUST君视论坛为“乐土”，希望“净化论坛之风”，总不该心怀恶意吧？然而也许是因为初来乍到，对某些笔名和网友不太熟悉，因而产生一些误解，有些话说得比较笼统、泛泛，所以容易误导读者，导致老友新朋的争斗。不过，过去和眼前的事实都使我相信，存心不良的人是不会得逞的，相反只会自取其辱。
对于我们中新来的外国专家，我和你们几位老友的心情是一样的，认为既热情欢迎，又以对其他华裔外籍人士一样的平常心相待，就是最友爱的礼遇。象Uncle Yeti这位“老外”说的， 我也不认为古月君等几位对CEG君有什么不恭的地方。 倒是那些把自己的话塞进别人嘴里、明言暗示、挑拨离间、借机攻击论坛的人才是中国人外国人所一致不齿的。我认为我们大家还是对事不对人，对各族网友一视同仁为上。
在此顺便对David/Auditor君有一建议：您的不少帖文很有价值。 哪怕仅为方便大家搜寻起见，是否也请您把您的众多笔名稍微减少固定一下？有一次我试图搜索无名氏，一下得到几千帖，很头疼。另外也好避免对论坛一知半解的人把不论什么莫名其妙的笔名都安到您头上。纯粹只是建议，仅供参考。
Good day/ Good night!
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Hey, how are you doing with your PL? Where is the forum for you guys to discuss
作者(Author)：poems? - 2002/01/31 13:04:49 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
Sorry I'm so slow, but what's "PL"?
作者(Author)：燕晶 - 2002/01/31 21:03:16 ***Where to discuss poems? Right here, of course.:-) Regretful that I don't have much time for that now. But I'll try.
Thanks for mentioning poems!
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I thought it was somewhere else.
作者(Author)：WAX - 2002/01/31 22:28:53 ***I am sure you know what PL is.
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I'm totally confused. Hope you didn't mix me up with someone else?
作者(Author)：yj - 2002/02/01 01:41:52 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
Last time you pinpointed out the source of a passage
作者(Author)：that I quoted to you. - 2002/02/01 09:30:43 ***People here call the book PL (The Prelude), from which I quoted. Sorry to have confused you.
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Ah, you mean that poem. 我是真不知道怎么办:-)
作者(Author)：燕晶 - 2002/02/01 16:58:05 ***I definitely love it. But translating such a long poem would be a very exhausting job - I'm sure you know this way better than I do. That's why I was kind of hesitant at starting it. But I think I'll try when I can, definitely.
Don't you want to post your translation first?:-)
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Ah, you mean that poem. 我是真不知道怎么办:-)
作者(Author)：燕晶 - 2002/02/02 21:58:22 ***作者(Author)：燕晶 - 2002/02/01 16:58:05 ***
I definitely love it. But translating such a long poem would be a very exhausting job - I'm sure you know this way better than I do. That's why I was kind of hesitant at starting it. But I think I'll try when I can, definitely.
Don't you want to post your translation first?:-)
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Let me tell you one more thing.
作者(Author)：WAX - 2002/02/02 22:00:04 ***作者(Author)：WAX - 2002/02/02 21:16:45 ***
Expressions like "a feeling and a love," " a motion and a spirit" belong to "hendiadys," a figure of speech that refers to one single thing with two words. Mr. Liang Shi-qiu didnot seem to know this basic literary device in his translation. Sometimes I wonder if people like him had really studied English poetry before they translated it.
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Well, at least I can tell I hadn't studied English poetry before I tried.:-)
作者(Author)：燕晶 - 2002/02/03 02:03:51 ***Thanks for your point. Do you mind recommending some readings on English poetry and Wordsworth for beginners like me? I'm not sure if I'll have time to read them soon. But it would be good to know what I should look for when chances arise. Thanks!
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The Art and Craft of Poetry
作者(Author)：WAX - 2002/02/03 12:27:50 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
Michael Bugeja teaches people how to write poems?
作者(Author)：燕晶 - 2002/02/03 15:13:05 ***Thanks for your recommendation. Read some of the sample pages at Amazon. It may not be appropriate to pass rash judgment, but if I have to tell honestly how I feel about the book, I'd say my intuition simply seems to defy this kind of instruction which aims at teaching people how to be creative as if creativity can be achieved by following some rules. I'm aware this could be my biased opinion. Hope my straightforwardness won't offend you. I just think the best way to show one's respect to someone else is speak honestly instead of passing some casual and meaningless compliment or flattery.
My sincere thanks again!
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I appreciate your straight talk. It's a matter of different opionions. I don't mind it at all.
作者(Author)：WAX - 2002/02/03 18:31:48 ***In my opionion, one needs to know how something works before one can really appraise its values and/or aesthetics.Books like that teach people about the mechanics of writng not the creativeness in writing.Another book that I would recommend is "Poetry Speaks."
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Yeah, I actually agree with you.
作者(Author)：燕晶 - 2002/02/04 11:53:22 ***I'll keep Bugeja's name in mind. And I look forward to hearing great poets reading their work. 谢谢！
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RE: 强中自有强中手。Based on additional posting from 野草 on CEG's determined effort
作者(Author)： - 2002/01/30 10:07:51 ***in learning Chinese, I take back my original SIGH on possible future cannibalization in the international arena for C-E/E-C translation work. I poured out empathy due to my Chinese 思想感情的基准点, but I'll honor more for those hard workers of any nationality.
In my opinion, CEG probably has spent some 20,000 - 30,000 hours polishing his Chinese language skills.
For those who absurdly asserts that CEG's Chinese is BETTER than natives, I would not label them 挑拨离间 for the following reasons:
1. heroes love heroes, any projection of narrower minds is doomed to fail;
2. the would-be "挑拨离间" candidates have EXCEPTIONALLY low Chinese language skills (possible tuition refund from their Middle School instructors on Chinese Language & Literature is hereby solemnly suggested.)
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请YETI注意（我原以为你的名字是：野踢，或夜啼的拼音）:致命的前提错误
作者(Author)：JUST - 2002/01/31 01:08:14 ***If you have any basic knowledge of translation at all.You will not be surprised to find that in any formal occasions, the interpreter only translate his native tongue into the target language despite of the fact the translation in many cases are not so up to the taste of native speakers.But that's the rule of the game.The reason is simple: the translator has no impediment in apprehending his mother tongue.BUT HE COULD NEVER BE 100% SURE OF THE FOREIGN LANGUAGE：
It really doesn't make any sense to FOLLOW YOUR ARGUMENT：
AS YOU SAID： If it is all right to 辩论英 译 汉 with a "老中" , why is it not right to 辩论汉译英 with a "老外" ?
YES IT IS ALRIGHT BUT NOT APPROPRIATE。
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Can a native speaker be 100 percent sure of his mother
作者(Author)：tongue? - 2002/01/31 01:19:26 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
stick to the issue pls! no place for u to base ur personal attacks on sb else's penname!
作者(Author)：DD - 2002/01/31 02:43:07 ***[ 回应此贴(Respond to this followup) | 查看原贴(Back to Original) ]
No, I don't. That's why I am here.
作者(Author)：Yeti - 2002/01/31 12:18:53 ***Re: "If you have any basic knowledge of translation at all." . You are right on
the button. No , I don't. I do NOT have ANY basic knowledge of translation
at all. I am neither a trained professional nor do I have any formal trainning
in Chinese and English translation beyound the regular (general) high school
level. So you are absolutely correct.
I must beg your pardon, Sir or Madame, because I did not know that you Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms "Just" is the same person as "Supporter." I thought those two are different people.
My point of " If it is all right to 辩论英 译 汉 with a "老中" , why is it not right to 辩论汉译 英 with a "老外" ? " was addressed to "Supporter" who claimed that GY and YC "detest" CEG simply because they put forward a different point of view.
But I must thank you , nevertheless, for agreeing with me on : "YES IT IS ALRIGHT", although I am at a loss to see why it is "Inappropiate."
Is it "inappropiate" to discuss and bring forth different points on
view on how to intreprete and translate something within the bounds of
a "discussion forum" ? Please elaborate.
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