y 于 2000/04/16 16:26:58 发表在 汉英
不甚了了。“译”成了中文，请帮忙。
NEUTRAL TONES
We stood by a pond that winter day,
And the sun was white, as though chidden of God,
And a few leaves lay on the starving sod;
__They had fallen from an ash, and were gray.
Your eyes on me were as eyes that rove
Over tedious riddles of years ago;
And some words played between us to and fro
On which lost the more by our love.
The smile on your mouth was the deadest thing
Alive enough to have strength to die;
And a grin of bitterness swept thereby
Like an ominous bird a-wing….
Since then, keen lessons that love deceives,
And wrings with wrong, have shaped to me
Your face, and the God-curst sun, and a tree,
And a pond edged with grayish leaves.
1867
路人
与君立池旁，冬日溢清光。落叶蔽寒草，灰色尤凄凉。
尔目及我身，淡漠如路人。不堪来去语，徒失相爱心。
触目惊微笑，一丝浮口角。渺茫辛楚味，扇翅如黑鸟。
自兹咀惭愧，恍然犹梦寐。不堪常回首，竟念事事非。
2000，4，16
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用白话试一下，请多指正
作者：hz - 2000/04/16 18:46:36
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中性的调子
作者：托马斯－哈代
冬日的水塘边，我们站在那里
太阳苍白着，仿佛受了上帝斥责
面黄肌瘦的草地上三两片叶子
－－是从涔树上落下的，灰的
你看我的目光，如好些年前
瞟过那些罗嗦的谜语
一些词句，徘徊在我们中间
扯着感情更快地退去
你唇边的笑如死寂的岩石
只多一丝活气，是赴死的气力
一抹苦涩笑影浮过
如不祥之鸟的翼翅
爱，不过一出骗局啊，还杂着错误。。。
这镂骨的教训从那一刻起将一切重塑
你的脸，还有上帝诅咒的太阳，
还有那树，还有灰叶围着的池塘
(谢谢录诗，感觉惨而美；冒昧将作者添上了；中间有三个白字是因为软件上没有“黑”的:-)；请指正！-- he zi )
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您译得好，得到很多启发
作者：y - 2000/04/16 23:26:32
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我初次读时也随手用白话写出，写了两过，读着
不太通顺，随后改为“古”文体，抛砖引玉。
您译得好，得到很多启发。我想参照您的，
再改我的。如果改得出，会抛出请教，也许明天。
先提个问题，这题目，到底怎么好？
我写“路人”，是随便加的。您译“中性的调子”，很准确，
但和下面的诗句感到稍稍有点不协调，:-) 有没有办法？哈代
同志:-)为什么标了这个题目，我也不大明白。
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neutral tones
作者：tian xin - 2000/04/17 00:05:36
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It is a slightly ironic title. On the surface it is a very constrained poem told with a detached tone. But there is an underlying bitterness running through the whole poem. Tones here can refer both to the subdued tone of the poem and the tone of the washed out whiteness of the winter sun. Just as the tone of the poem is not completely neutral, neither is the tone of the repeated colour gray altogether neutral. So 中性调子 may be seen as an accurate translation that captures the irony and the general tone of the poem.
Thank you two for providing us with translations of quite different style but equally hauntingly beautiful tones.
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谢谢！
作者：hz - 2000/04/17 11:47:54
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我的译法太散了一点。您的“两重翻译”:-)实非我所能，而古文的凝练确正是帮我救“散”的良药。谢谢！
对诗题的理解，我觉得tian xin说得很好。诗的表面是平淡中性的描述，这反而更让人感到埋藏不语的
痛苦之深。从这个考虑，加上楼下Yeti很好的意见，我想“爱，不过一出骗局啊，还杂着错误。。。”
改成“爱是欺人的，还杂着错误”这样“中性的调子”可能更好些。
BTW，为押韵又改了这两句：
一抹苦涩的笑影浮过
如同不祥之鸟的翅翼
Looking forward to reading another translation of yours!
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今天晚了，愧不能交卷，
作者：y - 2000/04/18 01:41:50
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先向您和各位网友深至谢意！
如您所说，这首诗“惨而美”。语言也有特色，
有些味道。可不太好译(对我来说)。您和Bitware
下笔轻松而意深且永，我想学，尚不成功，只好有空再
说了。tian xin和The Yeti，clown费心解释，
足资参考，一并致谢！不甚理解之处，也会寻机讨教。
X，pal，先问晚安！至于哈代同志。。。不理睬他，他
绝不会怪我！
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受诗情感染、Hz启发，也来一试。
作者：Bitware - 2000/04/17 11:46:06
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你我伫立在冬日的水塘旁，
苍白的太阳仿佛接受着上帝的训斥。
几许树叶飘落在饥渴难熬的草地上，
那是桉树的飘落物，颜色灰突突。
你的眼光打量着我，飘忽不定，
犹如飘移在多年前难解的谜语间。
相互间的语句，已不再是发自心底，
难以找回的又该有多少爱意！
你唇边的笑意，死寂如岩石，
如果有活力，那也是赴死的力气！
一抹苦涩牵动着你的嘴角，
就象不详之鸟的羽翼。
爱，不过是一场错误百出的骗人的把戏，
这份教训，从此铭刻在我心底。
今生今世也不会忘记：
你的脸、上帝诅咒的太阳，还有那树、那灰叶满边的池塘！
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与托马斯－哈代同志商榷
作者：X - 2000/04/16 19:37:14
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爱，是人世间最真、来不得一点虚伪的情感，若两心真诚相爱，骗局从何谈起？相爱，又何错有之？上天容得人间种种罪恶，怎会斥责最纯洁无暇的爱？爱，永远无罪，无错！为爱感到惭愧？哈代同志，我为您感到惭愧！
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aggressive love sometimes can be interpreted as harassment
作者：pal - 2000/04/16 20:09:38
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喜欢低度酒？
作者：x - 2000/04/16 20:22:56
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既然是love，不管多aggressive，都不是harassment，我想。
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颇有同感
作者：x - 2000/04/16 20:17:23
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您比我“大”，但同志之间，仍然平等。我和您
有些同感。本人做事常常出错，但不会后悔。哈代
也是同志，大概也没后悔。不过味不太对:)
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没有那么复杂，戏评哈代诗而已
作者：X - 2000/04/16 20:36:59
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本人称已不在世而且是外国人的托马斯－哈代为同志是开玩笑。赞成楼上关于aggressive love的看法。但本人的评论中讲的是两相情愿，所以不存在harrassment 的问题。Please don't read too much between the lines. I was just making fun of the poem.
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love deceives, (for you, my friendshey asked me , a song..)
作者：The Yeti - 2000/04/16 23:39:52
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"love deceives" may not be as serious as "骗局". It may be just
a case of "When your heart's on fire, smoke gets in your eyes".
moke Gets in Your Eyes
Music by Jerome Kern, Lyrics by Otto Harback
(1933: Broadway Musical Roberta)
(Copied from Reader Digest's Treasury of Best Loved Song)
They asked me how I knew
My true love was true.
I, of course, replied
Something here inside
Cannot be denied.
They said someday you'll find
All who love are blind.
When your heart's on fire,
You must realize
Smoke gets in your eyes.
So I chaffed them as I gaily laughed
To think they could doubt my love.
Yet today, my love has flown away.
I am without my love.
Now, laughing friends deride
Tears I cannot hide.
So I smile and say
When a lovely flame dies
Smoke gets in your eyes.
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@#$! Some junk got into the title !
作者：The Yeti - 2000/04/16 23:46:00
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..."For you , my friends, a song.."
Also "S" is chopped off from the word "Smoke" !
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More on neutral tone
作者：clown - 2000/04/17 00:22:52
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A language instructor was explaining to her class that Frenchnouns, unlike their English counterparts, are grammatically designated as masculine or feminine. Things like "chalk or Pencil" she described, would have a gender association, although, in English these words were neutral.
Puzzled, one student raised his hand and asked,"What gender is a computer?'' The teacher wasn't certain which it was, and so divided the class into two groups and asked them to decide if a computer should be masculine or feminine. One group was composed of the women in the class and the other of the men. Both groups were asked for 4 reasons for their
recommendation.
The group of women concluded that computers should be referred to in the masculine gender because:
1. In order to get their attention, you have to turn them on.
2. They are supposed to help you solve your problems,but 1/2 the time they ARE the problem.
3. They have a lot of data, but, are still clueless.
4. As soon as you commit to one, you realize that, if you had waited a little longer you could had a better model.
The men, on the other hand, decided that computers should definitely be referred to in the feminine gender because:
1. No one but their creator understands their internal logic.
2. The native language they use to communicate with other computers is incomprehensible to every one else.
3. Even your smallest mistakes are stored in the LONG TERM
memory, for later retrieval.
4. As soon as you make a commitment to one, you find your self spending 1/2 your paycheck on accessories for it.
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