tian xin 于 2000/05/18 17:56:47 发表在 汉英
驴子的故事
An ass, who was plodding along a road for a long time and was very hungry, happened to see two heaps of grass—one at some distance on the right side of the road and the other at some distance on the left side of the road. Now the ass thought that it was of utmost importance to be absolutely certain which of the two heaps was clearly the better before he could intelligently decide to go to one heap rather than the other. If he decided without thorough thinking and without having sufficient grounds for his preference, that would be impulsive action and not intelligent action.
Therefore he first considered the distance at which the two heaps were respectively placed from the road he was treading. Unfortunately for him, after elaborate consideration, he concluded that the heaps were equally distant from the road. So he wondered if there were some other consideration that might enable him to make the “right”choice and speculated upon the respective sizes of the heaps. Even with this second attempt to be theoretically sure before acting, his efforts were not crowned with success because he concluded that both heaps were of equal size. Then, with the tenacity and patience of an ass, he considered others things, such as the quality of the grass. But as fate would have it, in all the points of comparison he could think of, the two heaps turned out to be equally desirable.
Ultimately it happened that since the ass could not discover any deciding factor that would make his preference appear theoretically sound, he did not go to either of the two heaps but went straight ahead—hungry and tired as before and not a whit better off for having come upon two heaps of grass.
Source: Meher Baba, Discourses, Sheriar Press, 1987
一只驴子沿着路缓慢地行走了很久，饥饿异常。它碰巧看见两堆草－一堆在路右边不远处，另一堆在路左边不远处。这时，驴子想，至关重要的是，在它明智地选择其中一堆草之前，它要绝对断定两堆草中哪一堆占明显优势。要是自己在不加思索及没有充分根据的情况下来决定取舍，那将是一时冲动而不是英明举措。
因此，它先掂量两堆草各自离路的距离。不幸的是，经过再三斟酌，其结论是两堆草离路的距离相等。所以，它又想是否存在其它可能使自己作出“正确”决定的因素，便推测各个草堆的体积。然而，这给行动以理论认可的第二个企图，也没有成功，因为其结论是两堆草大小一样。然后，它又以驴子特有的顽强和耐性，考虑了其它因素，比如草的质量。但是，也算命该如此，在它所能想到的所有可以比较的方面，结果两堆草都是同样合意。
最后，由于驴子找不到任何能使其选择具有理论合理性的决定性因素，它就一个也不要，而是一直朝前走－象先前一样饥饿疲惫，遭遇两堆草并没有丝毫改变其状况。
投入蓝天，你就是白云；投入白云， 你就是细雨。投入草堆，。。。。。
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有思想的小毛驴的故事
作者：幼儿园阿姨XY - 2000/05/18 20:05:24
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从前有一头小毛驴，它可不象小朋友们看到的那些四肢不发达，头脑更不发达的笨毛驴，这头小毛驴可有思想呢！一天，小毛驴一边思考问题，一边漫无目的地沿着一条小路不停地走下去。走呀走呀，走了好长好长时间，小毛驴饿的肚子子咕噜咕噜直叫。
嘿，真巧，就在前面不远有两堆草，一堆在路左边，一堆在路右边。可是吃哪堆草呢？随便选一堆？那可不行，这头小毛驴不同一般的驴，凡事都要想个明白，有个理由，才肯去做。小毛驴站住不走了。
我们这头有思想的小毛驴决定选离它近的那堆草。哪堆草离的更近呢？左看看，右看看，右看看，左看看，怎么看距离都都一样近。
算了，不比距离了，比哪堆儿大吧！小毛驴一会儿觉得右边那堆大，一会儿觉得左边那堆大，比来比去，比不出个结果。
小毛驴的肚子咕噜咕噜叫的更响了。但是，小毛驴不理它的肚子，继续考虑到底选哪堆草。它决定不比大小了，比哪堆质量更好。看看右边这堆，干干的，香香的；瞅瞅左边那堆，香香的，干干的；这可难坏了小毛驴。
小毛驴是非常执着的，它一定要搞清楚哪堆草更好，而且要提出充分的理由说明为什么比另一堆好，才肯朝着哪堆草走过去。
最后呢，因为怎么比都比不出哪堆更好，小毛驴毅然决然地挺胸抬头、目不邪视地从散发着清香的两堆干草中间穿过去了。宁可挨饿，也不能选错，吃错。
小毛驴的肚子气坏了，眼前就有两堆草，偏把我饿成这个样，它冲着小毛驴的脑袋大叫：你这个驴脑子还是没有的好！
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Thank you Fairy Auntie XY:) I'm simply tongue-tied. My admiration unbounded. How did you do it? :)
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/18 20:37:52
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我代表小朋友谢谢tian xin 阿姨的礼物。鹤子小朋友回答的非常好，
作者：幼儿园阿姨XY - 2000/05/19 10:29:27
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请去tian xin 阿姨处领奖，一首诗，两支糖葫芦，三朵小红花。
大家说咱们班哪位小朋友画画最棒呀？ 对啦，是Yeti小朋友！那我们就请Yeti小朋友给我们画奖品好吗？
当幼儿园阿姨曾经是本人的理想。老师和同学一致认为本人非常适合，说我善于拉拢青少年。本人还曾认真地看过一本儿童心理学。
后来，理想“升级”了，但最初的理想依然使我神往。至今还在
ppromise我的同学们，等我退休，要办一个幼儿园，他们可以将孙子、孙女儿的都送来。
tian xin, 记得吗，本人曾以“幼儿园主任”的名字与你对话，你似乎邀请我作老师了。
谢谢你的老少皆宜的好故事。
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是喽！
作者：he zi - 2000/05/19 12:10:24
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故事讲得真好。我看得津津有味。难道您真的做过阿姨吗？一定是超级的！
作者：bm - 2000/05/19 19:59:36
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译“雨巷”那么大学问却能看小孩故事看得津津有味，看来您是童心未泯，不太好长大了:-)
作者：XY - 2000/05/19 21:04:22
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我应该代表小读者们谢谢湘云阿姨。是您把故事讲活了，才吸引来包括狗蛋朋友的那么多大朋友:)
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/20 07:27:34
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老实交代，吃醉酒后还编过哪些故事拉拢下一代？:)
这里有这么多喜欢故事的大孩子，将来咱提供脚本，您来“儿童化”如何？要么跟鹤子等大朋友们轮讲？点评等哗众取宠事宜留给本人:)
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好主意，那我这儿就算哲学院附属幼儿园吧！您给研究生上课，咱给小朋友讲故事:-)
作者：阿姨XY - 2000/05/20 10:12:58
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对不起，只顾响应您的好主意，没顾上“谦虚”，岂敢贪天功为己有！没有您的草堆，哪来狗蛋:-)
作者：XY - 2000/05/20 10:38:25
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投入草堆，而后知礼仪:-)
作者：he zi - 2000/05/18 20:45:51
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Well, well, just joking :-)
人们常常感慨别无选择的痛苦，其实更多的时候是面临选择时的举棋不定，这堆草更香，那堆草却更多。。。等着您的 review 给指一条 明路！:-) BTW，给大人和给小孩的两个版本风格大异却都极有趣味，很喜欢，多谢两位！
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投入草堆，然后君子 ;)
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/19 04:17:52
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As you said, the message is fairly clear and the saying "ass caught between two heaps of grass" is often used to satirize those who fear to make choices when necessary and seek guarantees for every move they make and thus find themselves in such a hopeless human dilemma.
XY's ingenious title "The Thinking Ass" sums up the essence of the story. Since the mind is a slayer of reality, too much thinking is just as bad, if not worse, as no brain. In a way and from a spiritual perspective, the two heaps of grass can be seen as representing the dualistic nature of reaity, and man is forever caught in between the opposites of good or bad, right or wrong. Until and unless one gives oneself entirely to the world of experience without clinging to calculating profit and loss, there can be no other way of transcending dualism which is the very nature of this phenomenal world, and bypassing the necessary 投入草堆 is not only foolish but also impossible.
Feed the tummy but starve the mind
In throwing off self is to Self find
PS: Was thinking of translating a more challenging and "mystical" one, but found they were too damn long. Have to leave it to a later time.
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偶最喜欢听故事. 谢谢!
作者：WQ - 2000/05/19 06:51:07
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让中国小朋友看上有质量的中国的, 外国翻译过来的童话故事, 健康成长, 好象比去造福全世界儿童重要多了. 看过一本一东北少年儿童出版社出的格林童话. 译者序写得很煽情, 象什么亲爱的小朋友, 请收下我们的这颗心吧. 可是译文许多地方莫名其妙, 对照一个英文选本一看, 差错得叫人心惊肉跳. 译文是照日文译本译过去的. 不明白的是, 这样一个著名的出版社, 不顾有德文原本和英文本的事实, 为什么要接受这样一个错误百出的转译本, 糟糕的译文还掺和着日文的腔调. 那颗心是什么心? 那是误人子弟良心大大的坏的心.
我听过一个类似的童话说, 两山夹一谷的地方, 一边山上驻了一个兵营. 一条狗在山谷中. 这时左边的兵营吹起了开饭号. 狗听到就往左边山上跑. 跑到一半, 号声停了, 右边的兵营的号声又响了, 狗回头向右边跑去, 在路上右边声音又停了, 左边响起来. 狗就这样可怜地来回跑个不停, 最后累死了.
我不是记得太精确, 也不记得来源. 也许是过去大人的俄语课本上的.
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俺喜欢你的文字
作者：XY - 2000/05/20 12:16:00
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我真的十分喜欢你的文字，小小年纪，文字如此踏实、质朴，难得。与你同野草君的对话联系起来，相信是文如其人。八、九点钟的太阳，前途无量，祝福你！
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谢谢你的小毛狗的故事。有的毛驴故事版本中，其结局同毛狗的一样。
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/20 18:20:25
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可能咱们的故事阿姨太偏爱有思想的了，才让毛驴幸免一死:)
另外，我看到过译林出版社印的《格林童话全集》杨武能/杨悦译。挺好的。如果你喜欢故事，鹤子大朋友译过《沙的故事》和《天宫的美味》文字优美，雅俗皆宜。用“搜索论坛”便能查到。
Enjoy reading!
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“美中不足，好事多魔”
作者：he zi - 2000/05/19 09:16:30
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想深了去 dualism 简直可说是现象世界的根本支柱和一切现象的根源。人一方面有超越它的愿望(表
现为信仰的需要)，另一方面在根儿上其实常常又并不真正地愿意超越(表现为对现象世界的眷恋)－－
To transcend or not to transcend，又是两堆草，简直 hopeless ！:-)
不用说，我也象楼下 WQ 一样爱听故事，洗耳恭“等”您讲更 mystical 的故事！另外，其实也老想
翻 The Algonquin Cinderella 什么的，但那么长的故事真是需要勇气和时间！－－等我攒够的时候吧:-)
多谢！
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投入草堆，变作草堆 :)
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/19 19:07:59
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This is the tragedy and glory of being human, dualism does appear as the basic reality, even the source of love. And yet something in us wants to attain to a oneness and wholeness to authenticate what must lie on the other side of the gap between the perceiver and perceived.
That's why great spiritual traditions all emphasize on the Oneness of Reality, the true source and originator of the phenomenal world. The world and its phenomena are just different manifestations of the One behind the many. The One is already in the many, and what matters is not to transcend duality as a separate entity but to include duality as part of the game and, knowing its illusory nature, thoroughly enjoy its Maya display. It is through time that time is conquered, and through plunging into the world of dualism is dualism finally understood in its real sense and is hopefully transcended. It all sounds paradoxical and it bloody well is, too. Too much philosophical speculation when one comes to realize that Love is the key. When one feels that as human beings we share so much in terms of aspiring for happiness and meaning. Love is the great dissolver of opposites, and initiator to a life of freedom.
If there is heaven on earth, it is Now and Here. In the very moment of passing Time. In the very throes of dualism. In the very heart of the grass heap :)
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Thank you for your philosophical speculation! But beware of becoming a thinking ass:-)
作者：5y-old - 2000/05/19 21:31:41
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多谢 tian xin 的阐释！
作者：he zi - 2000/05/19 23:09:52
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love love love, think think think; 莫合莫合莫合, 五岁五岁五岁－－哎呀我要飞跃！:-)))
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投入草堆，你就是驴子。。。
作者：渔夫 - 2000/05/19 10:02:02
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对于驴子来说，一堆草要吃，两堆草松松裤带，多花点时间也要吃。当然，
吃不完的话，可以在草堆里尥蹄，撒欢，和表演驴子的代表作“驴打滚”。
世界上没有沉思的驴子，只有沉思的哲人。
哲人粑粑是饿死的，因为粑粑和弟子无法停止他们的争论：
粑粑说：“可怜的驴子在沉思啊？！”
弟子说：“汝非驴，焉知驴思之？”
粑粑说：“汝非吾，焉知吾非知驴思之？”
弟子说：“汝非吾，焉知吾非知吾非知驴思之？”
。。。
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欢迎渔夫小朋友归队！千呼万唤，甜言蜜语，渔夫小朋友都无动于衷，非要讲故事才肯出来:-)
作者：XY阿姨 - 2000/05/19 10:39:44
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为驴子打抱不平也！为什么大家喜欢长耳朵兔，不喜欢长耳朵驴？为什么徐悲鸿画马多多，却不肯画一条驴？
作者：渔夫 - 2000/05/19 11:03:00
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因为有黄胄爷爷在画毛驴呀！他画的毛驴也多多！
作者：阿姨XY - 2000/05/19 13:01:41
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大家没有不喜欢毛驴，是在劝它不要想的太多、太复杂，瞻前顾后，患得患失，结果只能是守着草堆饿肚子。天下哪有处处划算的事情？横竖先吃上再说，右边草堆吃出虫子，再跑左边草堆去吃就是了。事情就是这么简单。明白了吗，渔夫小朋友？小毛驴一定会感谢你为它打抱不平:-)
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应反过来，是毛驴，你就投入草堆
作者：XY - 2000/05/19 13:16:41
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故事里的毛驴估计前世是哲人。让我们争作纯粹的小毛驴吧！
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Hehe, “投入草堆，你就是donkey……” Adult Content: 18 and Over Only
作者：laoliu - 2000/05/19 13:38:29
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ding/dong/dung
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Not very state of "art":-)
作者：渔夫 - 2000/05/19 15:14:49
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我贴完就后悔了，sorry！
作者：laoliu - 2000/05/19 15:27:43
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此贴实在无趣，请汉英拿掉，谢谢。
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不必在意。圣经里用得的字，老刘也可用得：)
作者：渔夫 - 2000/05/19 15:43:26
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Really? **Big sigh of relief** :-)
作者：laoliu - 2000/05/19 15:55:37
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对不起，刘兄！我没看过《圣经》，但你们都在讲“投入草堆”什么的，能否给我讲讲？
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/05/20 09:45:56
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Meunique
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内祥：
作者：laoliu - 2000/05/21 12:12:59
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我讲的是粗话（向心灵纤细者道歉！），至于有没有在《圣经》里出现，I'll take 渔夫's word for it. :-)
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内详
作者：xy - 2000/05/21 13:06:52
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您放心，压根没看出是粗话:-) 其实我到现在都不明白（千万别以为我在请教您），都怪您自己加了个少儿不宜的注释，不然谁也看不会看出什么问题；这就是作贼心虚吧？哈哈！谁都有一时不慎的时候，别再想了:-) 什么时候再拿出幽默小品来？您的英文写的非常好，那篇东西写的好象您干过记者似的！
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哈哈，我解释给你听吧！
作者：laoliu - 2000/05/21 21:16:57
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Nah, just kiddin'.
我是学理科的，但在《星岛日报》北加州版做过累计起来十个小时的翻译，算是我全部的新闻资历。（离开《星岛》的缘故，究其根本是不懂当今boyz 'n' grrlz的everyday's languages, u know。LUIGRIMN! Fa dose not in da know, I meant laughing until I got rice in my nose or 令人喷饭也！）
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吓了我一跳，以为
作者：xy - 2000/05/21 22:04:20
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要解释....哈哈，不说你也明白了。您才干了十小时，就被我看出来了，够利害吧！等着您的小品！
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好梦就如好诗，总是在意想不到的时刻降临。投入草堆，能把渔君拉回现实，值得:)
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/19 18:06:12
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As a matter of fact, the story is used in the Discourses to exactly illustrate the futility of philosophical speculation in the realm of spiritual practice. Meher Baba concludes the story with the following:
In the spiritual life it is not necessary to have a complete map of the path in order to begin traveling. On the contrary, insistence upon having such complete knowledge may actually hinder rather than help the onward march. The deeper aspects of spiritual life are unraveled to those who take risks and who make bold bold experiments with it. They are not meant for the idler who seeks guarantees for every step. Those who speculate from the shore about the ocean shall know only its surface, but those who would know the depths of the ocean must be willing to plunge into it.
在精神生活中，没有必要先有完整的地图，再开始旅行。相反，坚持得到这种完整的知识可能会阻碍而非帮助精神进步。精神生活的深层奥秘是向那些敢于冒险并大胆实验的人揭示的；不是为了那些每走一步都需要保障的懒汉。那些站在岸边推测海洋深度的人只能了解海面，一个人必须投身于大海才能了解海有多深。
很高兴看见您的名字再度出现。希望你的鸡汤红烧属和平演变:)
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Tian Xin 好。我要做一头不沉思的小毛驴。
作者：渔夫 - 2000/05/19 21:13:03
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Wise decision. A thinking ass is a real ass,
作者：XY - 2000/05/20 11:28:30
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yet better than a thinking and preaching ass. If fate makes you a donkey, then just eat grass, do the labor and enjoy your donkey life. Leave the thinking to real philosophers or real ass.
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借小毛驴的肚子的名言：“驴脑子还是没有的好！”，脑子一沉思，肚子就挨饿！
作者：阿姨XY - 2000/05/20 11:41:43
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May I put in a word for Meher Baba?
作者：5y-old - 2000/05/19 21:42:37
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Indeed, Meher Baba is not a philosopher,
but a philo-sophist...
1. For him, "stopping to plunge into a heap of grass"
equals to "marching onwards to plunge into an ocean":)
2. For him, "spiritual traveling" excludes "philosophical
trailblazing" as he never philosophized but only preached:)
3. For him, "it is not necessary to have a complete map
of the path in order to begin traveling" although he has
left behind a stack of Incomplete maps for the ass to follow:)
Conclusion: we don't need other maps anymore since we're
already blessed with those left by Meher Baba. Now let's
just plunge headlong into his bosom! :)
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You must be a 5y-old genius of philosophy. Eat more and think less, it would be good for your health :-)
作者：xy - 2000/05/19 22:25:16
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Thanks to Meher Baba's thought-provoking stories:)
作者：5y-old - 2000/05/20 09:11:16
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A word for my 5 year-old little friend
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/20 06:52:53
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Indeed, Meher Baba is not a philosopher, but a philo-sophist...
--Meher Baba is neither a philosopher nor a philo-sophist, he is a big and big-hearted friend, just like you are a little and a little curious friend.
1. For him, "stopping to plunge into a heap of grass"
equals to "marching onwards to plunge into an ocean":)
--For him, "stopping to plunge into a heap of grass" + "marching onwards to plunge into an ocean" equals to an analogy.
2. For him, "spiritual traveling" excludes "philosophical
trailblazing" as he never philosophized but only preached:)
--For him, "spiritual traveling" includes all traveling including "philosophical trailblazing". Interestingly, he didn't philosophize nor did he preach, but loved and served.
3. For him, "it is not necessary to have a complete map
of the path in order to begin traveling" although he has
left behind a stack of Incomplete maps for the ass to follow:)
-- For him, "it is not necessary to have a complete map of the path in order to begin traveling" because "Sound practice is far more important than sound theory, ...even a mistake in a practical direction may have its own valuable lessons to bring." That's why instead of leaving behind a stack of incomplete maps for the ass to follow, he left behind a supreme example of a selfless life lived on earth, a love without desire and a peace untroubled by ambition for humans to follow.
Conclusion: we don't need other maps anymore since we're
already blessed with those left by Meher Baba. Now let's
just plunge headlong into his bosom! :)
--Conclusion: we need wisdom from all remarkable beings whomever we happen to come upon and are blessed with. Don't forget to ask mum first before plunging headlong into another loving bosom :)
Love
Auntie tian xin
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Sure, no problem!
作者：5y-old - 2000/05/20 13:26:38
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--Meher Baba is neither a philosopher nor a philo-sophist, he is a big and big-hearted friend, just like you are a little and a little curious friend.
Willingly accept whatever Auntie TX can feed me, milk or silt:) When Auntie TX told the story about the thinking ass with her follow-up philosophical speculation, I accepted him as a philosophist as so presented. Now that she's telling me that he is not and, instead, he is a big-hearted friend as all love-inspired yogic gurus ARE. And so he IS! No problem! Whatever Auntie TX says is true! I love you and trust you as a Meher Baba disciple! Maybe I should call him grand grandpa master instead of just "friend"?
--For him, "stopping to plunge into a heap of grass" + "marching onwards to plunge into an ocean" equals to an analogy.
Excellent! You stopped a logical loophole that you created between telling the story and making the philosophical speculation. Never too late to add:) Thanks!
--For him, "spiritual traveling" includes all traveling including "philosophical trailblazing". Interestingly, he didn't philosophize nor did he preach, but loved and served.
Relieved after your revision. Agree! Just like all other types of sermons, discourses are never philosophized, nor preached, but simply served, and with love, too! We do appreciate "religious services," don't we? Meher Baba didn't found any religion, but only provided services and love. After all, semantic problems can be easily glossed over. But as you know, philosophers and philosophists can be lovers as well. "Phil," a Greek radical, means "love," doesn't it? No problem! When I called my grand grand master "philosophist," I implied that he was a great lover:)
-- For him, "it is not necessary to have a complete map of the path in order to begin traveling" because "Sound practice is far more important than sound theory, ...even a mistake in a practical direction may have its own valuable lessons to bring." That's why instead of leaving behind a stack of incomplete maps for the ass to follow, he left behind a supreme example of a selfless life lived on earth, a love without desire and a peace untroubled by ambition for humans to follow.
Sure, so many great saints have left behind so many books and deeds. We're not totally unfamiliar with their theories and practices. I seem to understand what you mean by "practices." There are all kinds of practices: Buddhist monks practice meditation in temples, love-inspired yogic gurus practice love on humans, statesmen practice statecraft in society, writers practice writing, philosophers practice philosophizing, thinkers practice thinking, theorists practice theorizing.... social practices, spiritual practices, mental practices, intellectual practices, scientific practices, religious practices.... Depending on an observer's perspective, he may always claim that "so-and-so" left behind different maps (what you call "examples" which may have semantic nuances), of "a selfless life lived on earth, a love without desire and a peace untroubled by ambitions for humans to follow." I've kept in mind Auntie TX's teaching, "In throwing off self is to Self find," which provides a perfect answer to the question why Meher Baba's image is so impressive on the net. That's because his "Self" is capitalized:) And likewise, they may also wish to say, "In throwing off desire is to Desire satisfy," and "in throwing off ambition is to Ambition fulfill." We're not totally unfamiliar with such paradoxes after all. What do they say? The greater the sinner, the greater the Saint:) Of course, apart from a supreme example of a universal Self he set, Meher Baba did leave us a stock of thoughts as carried by so many NON-theoretical books, didn't he? With such a great mind we can count on, why should we bother about thinking anymore:) That's the thrust of the story about the thinking ass.
--Conclusion: we need wisdom from all remarkable beings whomever we happen to come upon and are blessed with. Don't forget to ask mum first before plunging headlong into another loving bosom :)
Since I've come upon Meher Baba, why should I be bothered with other remarkable beings anymore? I don't want to go hungry like that thinking ass? I'd rather "Feed the tummy but starve the mind" so that I won't deviate from Meher Baba's teaching. If I ask mom first, it will only waste more time, but I'm too hungry to wait. You don't mean to let me learn from that thinking ass, don't you, Auntie? To paraphrase Auntie Tian Xin's teaching, "In throwing off mom is to Mom find," and that's why some do believe "in throwing off ancestral fathers is to the Holy Father find.":)
"Feed the tummy but starve the mind"
" In throwing off self is to Self find "(Quoted from Auntie Tian Xin)
Love? Yes! Think? No!
Believe? Yes! Argue? No!
Love, love, love! Grass, grass, grass!
From the 5y-old
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Am I talking to a 5-year-old sophist or a sophisticated 5-year-old? :)
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/20 17:38:55
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As someone who has overcome the ego, Meher Baba is the Self in all selves and is on all levels with all beings. You may call him whatever you feel he is, and he is still love itself. Friend or grandpa, is just a name, and a rose tastes just as sweet when called by some other name. I translated this story to entertain my friends here big or small, with no intention whatsoever of religious preaching. But however, I do not feel embarrassed to admit myself a lover of Meher Baba, just as I am a lover of all things true, good and beautiful, including Shakespeare, Rumi, Hongloumeng, Buddhism, Christianity, Sufism, Hinduism, Taoism and many other literary and spiritual traditions. It is they that have given meaning to my life and have sustained me through the years. And I would not have stayed at Hy00 had I not a love for beauty and a weakness for talent.
If you read the life of Meher Baba, you would know that almost all his discourse were dictated during intervals of his intense active work with the poor and masts and the world in general. They were almost invariably given as a response to questions from different people, and "to appease the intellectual convulsions of man" out of love for mankind and understanding for their intellectual curiosity.
The thrust of the story is a warning against too much philosophical speculation, not to tell you to discard thinking. As a matter of fact, critical discrimination is emphasized in the Discourses. In a way, religion is the highest form of philosophy. But unfortunately many so called philosophical speculations are limited by human mind and marred by human prejudice.
It is easy to go to extremes in interpreting a traditional story like that, but spirituality has nothing to do with extremity and spiritual practice is not to "practice love on humans" as you have speculated. It is to experience the divine in the ordinary and to accept life as it is without being passive in our response. It is seeing the One in the many and loving the many as aspects of the One. It is to love others, not blindly, but with clear understanding of their limitations and accepting them as they are.
It does not matter what you throw off, as long as you can find happiness and be a source of happiness for others, then you are practising spirituality and love.
Thanks for your interest in philosophical speculations not as a thinking ass but as a genius five-year-old philosopher :)
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Well, you're not talking but preaching to a 5y-old Meher Baba convert :)
作者：5y-old - 2000/05/20 18:53:59
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>>As someone who has overcome the ego, Meher Baba is the Self in all selves and is on all levels with all beings.
They all talk about our guru the same way as you do. I believe you. You don't have to philosophize it anymore.
>>The thrust of the story is a warning against too much philosophical speculation, not to tell you to discard thinking.
Why not? I want to be a non-thinking ass. Do please teach me how to "starve my mind"!
>>As a matter of fact, critical discrimination is emphasized in the Discourses.
I see. Do think, but in Meher Baba's way! And do criticize and discriminate, but from Meher Baba's perspective.
>>In a way, religion is the highest form of philosophy.
I'd be damned if I dare to deny such a divine prejudgement!
>>But unfortunately many so called philosophical speculations are limited by human mind and marred by human prejudice.
Absolutely! And they even threaten our very belief systems, too! So let's preemptively prejudice ourselves against philosophy!
>>It is easy to go to extremes in interpreting a traditional story like that, but spirituality has nothing to do with extremity and spiritual practice is not to "practice love on humans" as you have speculated. It is to experience the divine in the ordinary and to accept life as it is without being passive in our response. It is seeing the One in the many and loving the many as aspects of the One. It is to love others, not blindly, but with clear understanding of their limitations and accepting them as they are.
No problem! You preach it and I reach it without any further questions, I promise! What else can a non-thinking ass do except plunging into the heap of grass if he doesn't want to starve to death?
>>It does not matter what you throw off, as long as you can find happiness and be a source of happiness for others, then you are practicing spirituality and love.
Sure I can feel the happiness now since your Meher Baba story is such a source of happiness for me as well. In other words, I'm basking in the spirituality and love you're practicing.
>>Thanks for your interest in philosophical speculations not as a thinking ass but as a genius five-year-old philosopher :)
I should thank you for your philosophical speculation in its "highest form" and spiritual preaching as the greatest lover:)
Love, love, love! Grass, grass, grass!
from a 5y-old Meher Baba convert
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Do take it easy, my dear little friend.
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/20 19:51:02
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Nobody is damned for ever. God is love and love is eternally benevalent. Philosophical speculation may threaten belief systems but can never threaten love itself. Don't worry, be happy. No more philosophical speculation which is not my interest nor my original intention of translating the story. Here is a poem to feed your heart:
To try to understand with the mind
that which the mind can never understand,
is futile; and
to try to express by sounds of language
and in the form of words
the transcendental state of the soul,
is even more futile.
All that can be said,
and has been said,
and will be said,
by those who live and experience that state,
is that
when the false self is lost,
the Real self is found;
that the birth of the real can only follow
the death of the false; and that
dying to ourselves--the true death
which ends all dying--is the only way
to perpetual life.
This means that when the mind with its satellites--
desires, cravings, longings--
is completely consumed by the fire of Divine Love,
then the infinite, indestructible, indivisible, eternal
Self is manifested.
--Meher Baba
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As promised, you preach it and I reach it without further questions:)
作者：5y-old - 2000/05/20 21:26:30
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What does Wang Cheng say in the movie "Heroic Sons and Daughters"? For the victory of Meher Baba, target your shells against me! Or bombard me with Meher Baba preachings!:)
Love, love, love! Grass, grass, grass!
From a 5y-old non-thinking ass
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Hahahaha,but you are too young to have seen that movie :-)
作者：xy - 2000/05/20 22:03:52
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“为了胜利，向我开炮！”
亏你想的出！ 哈哈....
向你致敬，我们的小王成！
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Tell you a secret...
作者：5y-old - 2000/05/21 01:05:46
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Nothing is impossible if you give yourself up to Meher Baba:-)
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hahaha...Thank you for your innocent love-grass love-grass ammunition :)
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/20 23:13:03
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But remember, a story is meant to be enjoyed. Interpretation is not philosophical speculation. Explanation is not preaching.
Preaching is not spirituality.
Ammunition is the best way to end a story.
Bullets, bullets, love's rattle
Life's but a walking shadow
A tale told by a sad clown
Be it sweet or a bitter frown.
Good night, brave one. And peaceful dreams.
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No problem! All your geese are swan:)
作者：5y-old - 2000/05/21 00:44:11
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And all your stories are courteouly enjoyed:)
Speculation or interpretation?
Preaching or explanation?
Spirituality or ammunition?
You name it and we feel it.
"I AM the law!" --Queen Victoria
God bless you! Long live the Queen!
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二位饶了我吧！您们再“斗”（逗）下去，我要笑死了:-)))
作者：XY - 2000/05/21 08:52:46
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But really enjoyed your amazingly witty exchanges or shall we call it brain exercise? Is it part of your every workouts ?
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Enough of this psychobabble! And parents of a babbling psycho, please report to the front desk!
作者：laoliu - 2000/05/21 12:06:03
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内详：
作者：laoliu - 2000/05/21 12:41:46
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I have a lot of respect for tain xin, but please, spare us this spiritualistic mumbo jumbo!
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"Ammunition is the best way to end a story." Thanks!
作者：5y-old - 2000/05/21 14:00:20
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同意和不同意！:)
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/21 17:45:47
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Thanks for your timely and not so timely reminder:)
In the first place, as I said, I told the story to entertain my friends here. If I have to tell you the whole truth, it was partly to celebrate He Zi's finishing her term papers and reappearance at CE, with whom we shared some good times in the past telling stories. I was busy and couldn't do a longer and less "spiritualistic" one, and chose the present one totally for its simplicity and humour. I wasn't going to write a review for it also because of that. However I was dragged into a friendly and humorous mumbo jumbo with my 5-year-old friend with whom I also shared good times in the past exchange harmless ammunition. The exchange came to an end humorously yesterday as far as I am concerned, so there is no reason to worry about more such mumbo jumbo.
The last thing I would do is to force my ideas on others, and it is against my nature and consistent standpoint to pass judgment on people. But sometimes in order to make oneself clear, one has to resort to linguistic vehicle to express certain points, if only to avoid misunderstanding. Of course, the attempt itself creates the very trap it attempts to dodge, one is constantly caught in the same dilemma as that of the thinking ass. If there is anything the story itself doesn't explain clearly, this very moment of my writing helps to convey the futility of words.
As to what is spiritualistic mumbo jumbo and what is not, it is not up to me to decide. But one thing is clear, once one engages in a discursive or intellectual pursuit, be it linguistic or philosophical, one can't avoid values. And as this is an academic discussion forum, it is there for hair-splitting fun whether linguistically, poetically, novelistically, or philosophically. One can choose to read selectively and independently and according to one's intellectual or personal preference. If you go back further, you shall see that this forum has seen more heated political and personal bouts, which instead of tarnishing the image of Hy00, has actually enhanced its reputation as a tolerant and all-embracing bilingual site. I myself was attracted to it partly because of that.
I did not use to explaining myself, but this I found sometimes could be the cause of unnecessary misunderstanding, particularly in cyber space where there are no other means to assist. There you see, I tried to but with even less desirable results. I, like the hero caught in between the two heaps of grass, have to go further in my mumbo jumbo, as I am doing now, but it is out of respect for you my friend and for your views rather than out of the tanacity and stubbornness of a thinking ass :)
Thanks for your honesty and frankness and good intention. Your intervention very much appreciated.
tian xin
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My "partial" thanks! :-)
作者：he zi - 2000/05/22 14:55:15
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Just joking.我看信仰的事、哲学与宗教的关系简直永远也缠不清。篡改一句鲁迅先生的话：要爱的，尽情爱吧；要想的，尽情想吧！:-)
但愿我们每个人都能按照自己的信条愉快平安地生活。Have a good day, tian xin!
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基本同意。多谢阐释:)
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/22 17:33:21
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久违了，Algonquin Cinderella！希望早日看到你的佳译。I had a lot to say about that tale but have nearly forgotten what they were now. All I can remember is that it really moves the heart and is pure gold, showing the limitations of the ordinary Cinderella story--oops :) 历尽甜辛，痴心不改。却道天凉好个秋 in Australia.
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佳不佳，不妨译，但需时间和勇气！:-)
作者：he zi - 2000/05/22 20:19:26
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Promise I'll try.
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No matter how old you are, I admire your English and logic very much and
作者：XY - 2000/05/20 20:13:37
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enjoyed the witty exchanges between you and your Auntie, though as a non thinking ass, I am not particularly interested in the contents itself, which is really beyond me :-)
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亲爱的莫合爸爸，在您给俺讲这个故事时，故意隐去了两点
作者：5y-old - 2000/05/19 10:07:48
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一、那小毛驴儿一定不是很饿。如果饿坏的话，往前就挪不动了。
二、那小毛驴儿还不太老，没有惰性，不甘心，还有活力往前走。等到小毛驴儿长到莫合爸爸那么老，变成了老毛驴儿，就再也走不动了。
哈哈哈哈哈哈哈。。。。听了您的故事心真开，心真甜:-))))))))))
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真是妙译妙解妙思维
作者：he zi - 2000/05/19 11:57:58
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咱只抽过莫合烟，能说说“莫合”爸爸的来历么，小朋友？
作者：野草 - 2000/05/19 12:15:16
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咱只抽过莫合烟，还能分得清草驴、叫驴，就没听说过别的“莫合”，能说说“莫合”爸爸的来历么？谢了！
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Meher Baba, the story-teller :-) 要不说稚童妙译！:-)
作者：he zi - 2000/05/19 13:07:40
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he zi阿姨答得好。莫合爸爸是照Meher Baba的发音叫的。
作者：5y-old - 2000/05/19 14:41:35
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野草叔叔请进：
链接：Meher Baba
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原来如此，谢谢各位！你们讲的故事，小的老的都爱听，服了你们了！
作者：野草 - 2000/05/19 23:36:23
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原来如此，恕我孤陋寡闻，从未读过 Meher Baba 的中文，不知竟可译为“莫合”，令我想起当年曾须臾不离身的莫合烟，见笑了。谢谢各位！你们讲的故事，小的老的都爱听，服了你们了！
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“小的老的都爱听”
作者：XY - 2000/05/20 10:30:31
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不知您把自己归入“小的”还是“老的”？据我的观察，您童心盎然，仍有资格上幼儿园。为了拉拢你上幼儿园，我将准备一包莫合烟，一瓶地瓜烧，哈哈
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不老不小，亦小亦老，老中见小，小中见老。人生妙趣，无非尽在敬老院与幼儿园间穿梭之中！=)
作者：野草 - 2000/05/20 13:10:09
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过不久我就六岁啦，过生日一定给阿姨叔叔们讲故事，讲爷爷抽莫合烟喝酒又哭又唱的故事，......
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答的妙！就等着那天了！
作者：XY - 2000/05/20 14:12:35
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还没听故事。。。
作者：he zi - 2000/05/20 15:12:42
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您这一句话先已使我感动，可能也因为才看了您和 WQ 君的对话，引起不少感触。没别的，跟您的家妹:-)心情一致，愿您多多保重，健康 愉快！还盼您早点过生日！:-)))
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Here's another site about Meher Baba...
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/19 18:44:41
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链接：Meher Baba
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谢谢姐姐的故事，也谢谢幸云阿姨的小孩版（我打算打印出来，给我小侄子看了）。愚弟没有读过更没有译过来童话或寓言故事，手痒便来一段狗尾续貂的：
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/05/20 02:57:25
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有一只小毛驴，好不容易走了好长时间，正饿得慌时却给它看见路边有两堆草，一堆在左边，一堆在右边。小毛驴就想，千万要搞清楚哪堆好一点，切不可贸贸然行事。下结论之前，要是没有考虑清楚，要是理据不充分，便会失之于冲动和愚蠢。
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Meunique
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借鹤子的话：却是点睛。比我的精炼多了，又有文采。知识分子版 :)
作者：tian xin - 2000/05/20 07:02:46
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谢姐姐称许！知识分子？可惜愚弟不够资格！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/05/20 11:54:30
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Meunique
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为什么只给您的小侄子看呢？难道您不够资格吗？:)))
作者：幸云阿姨 - 2000/05/20 10:18:17
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哈哈！印出来给他看，不等于我不看呀！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/05/20 11:06:24
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Meunique
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