Fanghuzhai 于 2000/06/08 21:40:15 发表在 汉英
Hi, guys,
I single this article out from the Baoer reports because it is related directly to the problem of translation. The author thinks that the Chinese version is misleading and purposefully augments the original text. His quotes the sentence "not to feel regret because of spending one's life in vain and not to feel ashamed because of haveing been busy for nothing."(my translation) as the example.
But I do not agree with him idea. In reading Baoer's words, I never misunderstood its meaning, as the other interpretation given by the author.
Indeed, syntactically, the author's analysis holds water but semantically, it does not.
Although the original translation bears the syntactic features of the Russian language, it is by no means ambiguous. The other interpretation given by the author in this article has another Chinese version:" dang1 ta1 hui2shou3 wang3shi4 shi2, ta1 ke3yi3 shuo1, sui1ran2 xu1du4 le nian2hua2, ta1 bing4 bu4 hui3hen4; sui2ran2 ceng2jing1 lu4lu4 wu2wei2, ta1 bing4 bu4 xiu1chi3."
The crux of the interpretation lies in how to interprete the negation scope of the "not regret" etc in the original text. The Chinese translation uses a sentence pattern that is definite Western (I wish someone could find similar pattern classical Chinese). As "imported grammar", it brings with it the correct interpretation of the grammatical meaning. If not so, it would not have withstood the test of time and survived.
The grammatical meaning of this "not be Adjective because of so and so" negates "so and so".
I am not happy because I won the prize = I am happy, but not because I won the prize.
I will not be regretful because I have spent my life wastefully = If I would be regretful, it would not be because I have spent my life wastefully (implication, spending my life wastefully is out of question).
In both examples, the so and so part may or may not be a fact. It is only irrelevant. Whether it is a fact needs context to make it clear, namely, the non-linguistic factors that contribute to the interpretation of the meaning of utterances.
In the case of Baoer, we can naturally infer from the whole novel that what he means in his words refers to the fact that he has not wasted his life.
That is why the quotation is not ambiguous at all, neither the original nor the Chinese translation.
为何用中国的银子重炼前苏联的废铁?
据报载,中国中央电视台放映的电视连续剧“钢铁是怎样炼成的”(下简称“钢”)在中国人中掀起了“保尔”热。报纸上热烈讨论该剧在艺术上的得失;书店里铺天盖地摆开“钢”书的专柜;Internet网上不厌其详解释保尔时代(1918-1922)的历史事件。
据说,这次重拍“钢”剧,全部由中国投资,演职人员包括所有人物角色和美术师达60多人,全部雇佣外籍人。剧组在乌克兰艰苦拍摄了8个月之久。所有这一切,想来定是用巨额外汇铺成。我们不禁要问,既然保尔为之奋斗的事业早已灰飞烟灭,为何还要用中国的银子重炼前苏联的这块废铁?这一切难道仅仅是商业炒做吗?
在我们展开讨论之前,有必要先复习一点中文。假设你参加了一次竞选,结果落选。这时你如果说,我不因落选而灰心。任何人听到你的话,都会理解为,你落选了但不灰心。在弄清这点常识后,现在我们来重读“钢”书中那段我们人人自小耳熟能详的话:
人最宝贵的是生命,生命给予我们每个人只有一次。一个人的一生应该这样度过:当他回首往事的时候,不因虚度年华而悔恨,也不因碌碌无为而羞耻。这样,在临终的时候,他就可以说,我的整个鲜血和生命,都已经献给世界上最壮丽的事业,为全人类的解放而奋斗!
1969年我上中学的第一天,我们班主任的丈夫,时任校革命委员会副主任(相当于现在的副校长),来给我们作了题为“人生应该是一本红色日记”的演讲。他朗诵这段话时,激情澎湃,唾沫星横飞,但我始终没理解这段话中关键两句,“不因虚度年华而悔恨,也不因碌碌无为而羞耻”,到底要说什么。因为照我们前面所举的例子,可以理解为虚度了年华而不悔恨,碌碌无为了但不羞耻。这虽然非常符合中国道家学说的最高境界,但显然和保尔要解放全人类的救世情结不合。所以剩下的理解便是“不曾虚度年华因而无所悔恨,没有碌碌无为所以不感羞耻”。但即使这样,怎么忽然就和全人类的解放事业联系起来了呢?众所周知,虚或不虚度年华,无为或有为,都只不过是生活态度不同而已,并不涉及解不解放全人类的问题。这里我们暂且不论是否存在所谓解放全人类的事业。也不去评判它是否算得上世界上最壮丽的事业。当奥斯特洛夫斯基饥寒交迫修铁路时,对现代科学作出划时代贡献的爱因斯坦正在斯德哥尔摩领取诺贝尔奖。按任何标准衡量,爱因斯坦的年华都没有虚度。但他的一生和全人类的解放事业恐怕没有直接的联系吧,除非你硬说前苏联爆炸了原子弹是应用了爱因斯坦的E=mc2的公式,因而打破了美帝的核垄断。
让我纳闷的是,为什么这样一段语法不通,逻辑不清的话,不但在极左时代的中国大受崇拜,而且在改革开放的中国,又能被祭出来招摇过市。
我不懂俄文,不能核对奥斯特洛夫斯基俄文原话。下面是我从他的书的法文译本中找出的译文(V.FELDMAN,Les Editeurs Francais Reunis 1945版, 216页):
Rien de plus precieux pour l'homme quela vie qu'il recoit une fois pour touteset qu'il doit essayer de remplir de facon a bannir toute honte et tout regret,a n'avoir pas a rougir d'un passe mesquin et malpropre,a pouvoir se dire,en mourant,que toutes ses forces,il les avait consacrees a ce qu'il y a de plus noble dans le monde :la lutte pour l'emancipation humaine.
为方便不懂法文的读者,下面是我请一位精通英文的朋友按法文转译的英文:
There is nothing more precious for manwhich the life that he receives once forall and which he should seek fulfilment so as to banish all shame and all regret,to not have the shame of a mean and indecent past,to be able to say,in dying,that he had devoted his energy to what is the noblest in the world:the struggle for the emancipation of mankind.
显而易见,这段法文(或英文)译文既没有中文译文那样煽情,也没有语法不通,模棱两可的毛病。一般来说,不同西方语言之间的互译比它们与中文的互译要容易得多。所以我宁肯相信,FELDMAN法文译文可能更接近奥斯特洛夫斯基俄文原话。因而我猜想,作为在原书中一个不起眼的地方出现的这么一句普普通通的话,它在前苏联一定不会像它的译文在中国那样莫名其妙地受人顶礼膜拜。
奥斯特洛夫斯基虽然在中国被重新炒得门庭若市,但他的书在西方却是贫居闹市无人问。我到列日市立图书馆找这本书,两位40多岁的管理员都说从未听说过奥斯特洛夫斯基。问我此人名字如何写,我说中文我知道,但用字母如何拼却不知道。又问书名,我将“钢铁是怎样炼成的”用法文说了。她们在计算机上没找到。我说法文书名全称可能和中文不同,您就把所有书名中含有acier(钢)一词的书都列出来。计算机一下列出几百个书名。一一细看,终于看到一行字: Nicolas Ostrovski l'acier fut trempe.从仓库里把书找出来一看,正是奥斯特洛夫斯基的“钢铁是怎样炼成的”(法文书名:淬火之钢)。纸张泛黄,一直堆放在仓库里,已经几十年没人借了。这就好比一块废铁,虽然身经千锤百炼,但毕竟还是废弃之物,连一块意大利比萨饼还不如。 在笔者看来,奥斯特洛夫斯基最要不得的就是他的救世情结。在“钢”书法文本的序言里,法国文豪罗曼罗兰写道:即使奥斯特洛夫斯基处于从早到晚无边的黑暗中(他已失明),他也在思考着世界各地的革命:中国,西班牙……。他设计着外省的起义方案,指挥他幻想中的军队粉碎弗朗哥法西斯匪帮。他憧憬世界革命的来临,并为它开辟道路。
一个双目失明,全身瘫痪,生活完全无法自理的人,却整日生活在这样一个精神世界里!我真不知道是应该视他为英雄呢,还是把他看作精神病患者?无独有偶,在王朔小说“动物凶猛”中,我们也看到类似的人物:半大孩子,文革中无所事事,整天对着地图思索中国在第三次世界大战中的战略问题。在共产党的教育下,孩子从小便被灌输了救世情结,因为普天下还有三分之二受苦人等他长大去解放哩。两千万这样的孩子后来的命运我们都熟悉:他们连正常上学的机会都没有,而是被送到农村脸朝黄土背朝天,和可以说当时世界上最贫穷的亿万农民一起在土里争食
令人遗憾的是,虽然那种愚民教育已成笑柄,但其余毒仍然渗透在许多当年的孩子,现在的中年人的骨髓里。于是便有所谓“青春无悔”的梁晓声,摇一杆秃笔,操一口文革方言,重新炮制“钢铁是怎样炼成的”。而那些不幸坐在中国各层主管位置上的中年人们,更为“钢”剧拍摄大开绿灯。好处之一是可以从保尔身上找到自己的心理平衡:是呀,我们的理想虽然香火不继,但我们当初追求理想的余勇可嘉。再炼炼前苏联的这块废铁吧,不失为我们舒解心理障碍的一剂药方,即使花了中国的银子,又有何妨?反正我们还有一千多亿美元的外汇储备。至于共产党的机要部门,深圳市委宣传部,策划重拍“钢”剧的如意算盘是如何打的,就不是我想乱猜的了。不过我深信,现在的孩子不是那么容易变得愚不可及的。
资料来源:《华夏文摘》2000年4月28日 作者:江岩声
[ 回应主贴 ]
[ 返回论坛 ]
跟贴目录:
跟您同感
作者:hz - 2000/06/08 21:58:50
***
说翻译不通,我觉得是作者自己有点求深反惑。其实他的意思很简单,就是说共产主义的东西已经过时了,何苦再让这样的书从故纸堆里钻出来重见天日?但他的论述东拉西扯,逻辑上似乎很混乱。
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
Some background info about Chinese version of Baoer Kechajin
作者:Fanghuzhai - 2000/06/09 00:24:49
***
http://www.chinatide.org/shikan/shikan0531-baoer.htm
链接:再练钢铁—保尔精神
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
re:保尔精神的误译
作者:果核儿 - 2000/06/09 02:59:27
***
你自己整天为着个人利益营营苟苟,为什么别人就不能有远大的目标。你认为苏联解体,就表明共产主义就失败了吗?教育孩子有远大理想有什么不好?别装模做样假借什么语言问题来标榜自己吧?
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
有道理。言者未必然,听者又何必不然。我看不出保尔那段话的语法有什么问题。总的说,这篇文章很威猛。装猛!大概是觉得自己曾经上当了,但以文中透露的态度看,现在是老母鸡要下蛋,找不到墙旮旯。
作者:桃谷六仙 - 2000/06/09 06:23:29
***
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
原话一点语法问题都没有,倒是作者的脑子有点歇斯底里。庸人时代,真是千奇百怪,无奇不有!不过,老师这句话的语法倒真的有问题:I do not agree with him idea!不过,倒是现在有的学者阅览有关前苏联的一些材料后,发现有不少是“为革命需要”而捏造出来的。有时间,扫两篇出来。
作者:Last Hermit - 2000/06/09 07:55:38
***
---------------------------
Meunique
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
我的一生应该是这样度过的,
作者:HONEYFOX - 2000/06/09 08:03:36
***
当我回首在汉英论坛的日子时,我从未因疯狂灌水而羞耻,也从未因胡乱扔砖而悔恨,这样,在临终时我就可以说,我为汉英论坛的建设也做出了一点点贡献。 (听上去好象是有点异样,仔细分析又是对的,奇怪!?)
另有一点向FHZ兄请教:
兄以为:I'm not happy because I won the prize = I am happy, but not because I won the prize.
我用前一句问身边的老外,理解的都是“因为我赢了,所以我不高兴。”这个例子有依据吗?难道是因为口语习惯与书面语法的差异的迁移,而造成老外也听不懂了?
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
this not...because indeed is tricky. I am going to check. Thanks.
作者:Fanghuzhai - 2000/06/09 09:45:48
***
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
瞎讲两句:
作者:laoliu - 2000/06/09 10:04:41
***
I'm not happy because I won the prize.
1. I'm happy, but not because I won the prize.
2. I'm not happy, because I won the prize.
When it is isolated from its context and when it is spoken, the above sentence could convey meaning 1 or 2. Note that, for meaning 1, the speaker is attempting to use the "not" to negate the "because" clause. Whether he achieves that depends on how he renders phonetically[?].
Meaning 2 is the default and is even more probable if the stress is on "happy" and there is a pause before "because."
If meaning 1 is intended, the stress is on "because" and the "because" clause should follow immediately, because, if left unmodified long enough, "I'm not happy" would just mean, well, you are not happy. Better yet, add something like "I'm happy BECAUSE I met a lot of new FRIENDS here."
For all the confusion it causes, using the sentence for meaning 1 is not advised. A better way to say it: "I'm happy NOT because I won the PRIZE, but BECAUSE I met a lot of FRIENDS here."
嘿嘿,没有任何权威的理论根据,千万以批判的眼光看上面的分析。
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
老刘说得对
作者:野草 - 2000/06/12 06:45:47
***
“I'm not happy because I won the prize.”缺乏上下文,书面本身有歧义。口语一靠前后情景,二靠停顿轻重(prosodic features)来表达信息核心。蜜狐问身边老外所得意见表达的其中一种可能性,肯定是基于“问”时的停顿轻重。
老刘说得对,为避免歧义,文字上往往可调整( rephrase )。
类似可能有歧义的例子比比皆是:
The dog is not allowed to run outside.
Some of the children are walking to the lake in the park.
歧义都可通过不同方式避免。
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
老师正忙着,我这里有一瓶驱风油,您先涂着……
作者:Last Hermit - 2000/06/09 10:24:46
***
也许与非限制性的附加分句最明显相似的是被描述为追加分句的那一类分句,即通常为插入或事后想到的一类分句:
Susan sees her father--when her mother insists on it. [1]
例[1]中说的那句话表达了两层意思:苏姗见到父亲;她母亲坚持后,她才见到父亲。但是,例[2]中的when-分句一般解释为限制苏珊见到父亲的情境(苏姗只在这种场合见到父亲):
Susan sees her father when he comes to London. [2]
非限制性分句,不论它在母句之前还是之后,均用语调分隔出来,标点符号的使用却不尽一致。尤其当非限制性分句被前置时,标点符号可以省略。但是,实际上,当非限制性分句被前置时,标点符号是个多余的标记,因为前置分句总是非限制性的。例如,例[1a]和例[2a]都是非限制性的:
When her mother insists on it, Susan sees her father. [1a]
When her father comes to London, Susan sees him. [2a]
当母句含有一个指心手段时,限制性和非限制性附加状语分句的语义差别便不言自明。非限制性分句不可能成为这些指心手段的中心,在这点上,它与外加状语的句法相似。例如,否定的中心可以落在例[2b]中的限制性when-分句上,却不能落在例[1b]中的非限制性分句上。
Susan doesn't see her father when he comes to LONdon. ["Susan sees her father, not when he comes to London, but at other times."] [2b]
Susan doesn't see her FAther when she can aVOID it.. ["Susan doesn't see her father--the times she does are when she can't avoid it."] [1b]
请注意,如果例[2b]中的when-分句被前置,那末它就不在否定的范围之内:
When her father comes to London, Susan doesn't see him. [2c]
对于because-分句来说,语义上的差异就更为明显。试将例[3a]中的限制性分句与例[3b]和例[3c]中的非限制性分句作一番对比:
Raven didn't leave the party early because CARol was there. ["Raven left the party early, not because Carol was there, but for some other reason."] [3a]
Raven didn't leave the party EARly, because CARol was there. ["Raven didn't leave the party early, and the reason he didn't was that Carol was there."] [3b]
Because CARol was there, Raven didn't leave the party EARly. [=[3b]] [3c]
我们现在可区分三种because分句:限制性附加状语(例[4a])、非限制性附加状语(例[4b])和语体外加状语(例[4c]):
Raven didn't leave the party early because CARol was there. [4a]
Raven didn't leave the party EARly, because CARoL was there. [4b]
Raven didn't leve the party EARly, because I CHECKED. [4c]
同样,我们可区分出四种while-分句:谓体(和限制性)附加状语(例[5a])、句子(和非限制性)附加状语(例[5b]、内容外加状语(例[5c])和语体外加状语(例[5d]):
I didn't send my children to a boarding school while I was in INdia. [5a]
While I was in INdia, I didn't send my children to a boarding school. [5b]
My children enjoy jazz, while I prefer classical music. [5c]
While we're on the subject, I prefer classical music. [5d]
原装出品:A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language
包装:华东师范大学出版社
监制:Randolph Quirk等
---------------------------
Meunique
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
不好意思,赶制油,没留意上有老师和兄长,幸勿见怪!
作者:Last Hermit - 2000/06/09 10:31:21
***
---------------------------
Meunique
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
还是您的驱风油管用。
作者:laoliu - 2000/06/09 10:37:31
***
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
隐士老师的驱风油着实不错,但是...
作者:HONEYFOX - 2000/06/09 11:10:51
***
在because 从句中如何理解其限制性或非限制性,在上下文意思不是很明确时,如何知道Raven didn't leave the party early because Carol was there.是否是限制性的,“,”是标志吗?是否如老刘所讲,上下文意思不明确时,最好不用其来表达限定性的用法。我对所谓“限定性”的概念有点模糊,如:I'm not happy because I lost my wallet 如果理解成I am happy, but not because I lost my wallet. 听起来有些荒唐,就是说象这样的句子永远也不是“限定性”的,不管because前有没“,”?
请隐士老师再此“神油”,在此先谢 !
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
没有标点符号的为限制性。“Raven didn't leave the party early because Carol was there”通常意思是“雷文并不是因为卡露在那儿才早走的”。如果中间有一个逗号分隔开,表示后面的从句是“非限制性”的。
作者:Last Hermit - 2000/06/09 12:15:32
***
限制性状语把母句中的情境限制在该状语所描写的环境里。而非限制性状语说的是另外一件事情,提供补充信息。
---------------------------
Meunique
[ 回应此贴 |
查看原贴 ]
[ 跟贴目录 ] [ 返回论坛 ]