光新 于 2000/06/22 08:26:23 发表在 汉英
Thanks for the fine translation from 野草 and for the mostly positive and pertinent comments from the other pals!
My response will be centering around that expertly commentry from "wq." First,I agree to
change the first word in the "黄河怨--"希望" into my
original option "river god"(河神) instead of the river course (河道) as
suggested. I purposefully used "希望" because I had the "project
hope"(relevant?) in mind at that moment.Yes,try not to use the words of abstract
concepts,river god is far more tangible,and in keeping with the notorious
Chinese tendency to deify, thank God,this one is not my creation,but that by the people
in Xi-meng-bao's time.
I like and am influenced and try to imitate the classic poems, so I
readily and happily subscribe to the suggestion to make the last pair rhyme in
"有了". OK,I'll figure out a way later.
As to the much interpreted and critically-attended one"爱是什么?",some
explanation is needed.The second stanza is about the power of a kiss,the point
here is "heat." Two pairs of lips are just like two approaching submarined
tectonic plates,when they meet,there'll be a violent explosion like that of a
volcano,the ensuing huge wave is scorchingly hot,because it originates from an
extremely "hot kiss"(滚烫的吻)! First it roasted the Great White (meant
to symbolize the traditionally feared and murderous force against human love and
life),rendering it impotent.The waves from a tsunami are said to be as high as
20 or 30 meters,so it can touch and torch the kites in flight.I tend to
associate a kite with free-flying spirit,thus the image.A love kiss can set the
lips and heart on fire,hence the inflmmable tsunami waves,hyperbolic?please
forgive the streched poetic imagination.Next let's cudgel up an image of falling
burning pieces of kites vicariously bearing the news(and probably scars)of a
loving and hot kiss.Kite is in air because of wind which will dutifully blow the
messenger ashes to all direction for the notice and consumption of those
sensitive,tender and romantic souls.Wish people could make out some sense from
this explanation.
(to be continued tomorrow)
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We understand, it's the time difference. Thanks for your response!
作者:汉英 - 2000/06/22 09:04:05
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"河神"好极! 介于虚实之间. 等着您的待续部分.
作者:wq - 2000/06/22 13:27:04
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看来我应该修正对今日汉诗和汉诗人的看法. 您用中文写诗, 英文自评, 俺只能用中文扯上几句. 我想您这几首诗里体现的努力 及不同文化的融会应该是汉语新诗的发展方向.
谢谢您的解释, 非常有帮助. 得承认我原来没有读明白这首"爱是什么." 您说写kiss的是"The second stanza", 应为first之误? 这第一段我现在有点懂了. 原来没懂的原因主要是:
大白鲨的典故和隐喻. 因为我不知道, 所以把这一个image看成恣意的想象和新奇词语的堆砌. 这不是汉文化本有的典故, 是拿来的. 但我们提倡拿来. 所以这一节不能怪您, 只能怪我. 不过您如出版时, 似可采用加简单脚注的办法注释大白鲨在何种文化里的何种喻意, 照顾一下象俺这样懵懂的读者:-)))
风筝的意象. 俺前面说"海浪怎么点燃其它东西"其实是找碴子, 巨浪和烈焰之间的通感在诗的情景下还是很显见的, 对理解影响不大. 这儿的障碍在于, "点燃的风筝"与"传扬喜讯"之间太大的空白. 联系两者的中间人--纸灰给故意省略了. 如果说这一省略想使诗简洁, 把想象的空间留给读者, 那么代价恰恰就是这个空间过大, 让人无从想象. 读时, 这个纸灰曾在我脑中出现过一次, 但我放弃的. 原因是阅读心理上的, 给扑面而来的这许许多多的大跳跃的image, 新, 奇, 特的词语(包括大白鲨部分的)迷惑分散, 心想, 难道作者想说的也是这个吗, 不会吧. 所以这一节一半怪您, 一半怪我. 我觉得, 您把这个中间体加上, 非但丝毫没有让这个意象失之肤浅, 而得之清晰. 比如说:
滔天热浪点燃了风筝
纷飞的黑蝶让喜讯四处传扬
朦胧与不可解不是同义词; 意识流和无序混乱也是两回事. 诗之为诗, 在于作者和读者的共鸣. 其实我已经喜欢上这第一段了. 等着您对下面几段的串讲:-)
嗨, 俺怎么又胡说了一通? 打住, 回家了.
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Thanks a lot for you masterful reply!
作者:光新 - 2000/06/22 22:05:35
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Now, let's return to the “dreamy” second stanza wherein several allusions
were used . The first is “庄生梦碟”; the second is “西施”, here I tried to refer to
and add on the idiom (dreamy) love is blind-情人梦眼出西施, in this case, love has
become a beautifying agent; the rest are found in “唐诗鉴赏词典”,please kindly
refer to P128 for “封候”, P607 for “白骨”,and most importantly,P1124 for that
favorite of mine, the phenomenon is psychologically intriguing and thought
provoking-a love-sick wife’s fervently longing mind transcending time and space,
human and the other world (I meant to squeeze “seasons” in too, remember
冻牢石根(in more than numbing winter) and春闺in the old version?)
I deleted the last stanza as its “eye” is not so clear, which originally meant to
be “亮”,thus the星光,泪光,钻石”,but the images were not so coherent and
dense, so let it go! By the way,the” eyes” of the first 3 stanzas are respectively
“热” “迷” “乱”(out of order or joints because of the mystical and irresistible
pull of love).I decided to make it up for 4 parts, because I'm subconsciously
swayed by the classic “四联(首,颌,颈,尾 联)”.
In the “ Yellow Sorrow,”I introduced this muddy and sandy (sullied) character
of “River God,” let's hope it fits . "油绿" pairs with "穷" better.
I plan to return to Beijing in early July for three weeks to pursue my "project hope."
And there's some unfinished work here before I go. Please tolerate me for the late response!
Attached hereby is the revised version:
一、爱是什么
爱是什么?
爱
是个引发海啸的亲吻
寡欲的大白鲨
因此烤焦
利齿啃不进温柔的细沙
禁忌的长堤
顷刻轰塌
滔天热浪
点燃了风筝
让喜讯
四处传扬
爱
是场真幻莫辩的好梦
花是栖定的蝶
蝶是翻飞的花
馆娃宫中醉妃
反是仿美不类的东施
塞外战场纠缠草根的白骨
精变成
新近封侯的郎君
笑盈盈
走进春闺
和思妇
铁钳般的怀抱
爱
是股神乱无比的引力
垂老的星系
慢慢向“黑洞”倾斜
身份伙同年龄、种姓 跳出了
既定座标
罗盘和舵轮破碎成渣
改由
迸发岩浆的心来导航
爱
到底是什么?
二、有了
有了
伞下那张半遮的笑脸
我不用
再去贪看沾雨后更抢眼的花瓣
有了
桌边几句嗔怪的私语
我不用
再去翻找软化过侠骨的情歌光盘
有了
隔篱伸过来的那双纤手
我不用
再向摔碎过不少期盼的崖头攀援
而若是
若是有了
你我近乎重叠的身影
彩云就不用
再去
把时而幽冷的月光挡严
三、黄河怨
破羊皮筏
载着泥沙蒙面的河神
遭乱流劫持
颠三倒四 软弱地醉泻
浊黄
已成为沿岸人眼泪的主色
真穷啊
穷到百里都找不全
一片像样的油绿
雪山上下来的清流
羞于
再走完全程
让龟裂的河床
长满死鱼的眼
干瞪着
那逼疯了的
滥伐之手
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谢谢光新君! 读诗人自论其诗, 亦是一大快事.
作者:WQ - 2000/06/23 05:42:34
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以前我曾买过一本小书, "诗的诞生"(多年了, 如果没有记错, 是阿英主编). 请多位诗人就其一篇成名作或代表作谈创作的过程. 从灵感的产生, 意象的捕捉, 布局的推敲, 语词的选择, 初稿定稿的比较, 及细微至一个点睛之词之韵的得来, 读着非常愉快.
"爱是什么"用三个stanza组成是恰当的, 这三段浑然一体. 原稿第四节是有凑上去的感觉. 如果没有找到能表达"亮"的恰当的意象, 对, 就let it go! 缺了一个意思, 一个句子而完成不了整首诗, 似乎是诗歌创作中很常见的现象. 然而古诗亦偶有三联的, 给人就是未完成, 突兀的特别感觉, 与本诗风格极相和.
化用典故是汉诗的深厚传统和表达手法中强有力的武器. 不过用典有时也是一把双刃剑. 在读者不能再识别原典的情况下, 典故就从诗之灵魂变成理解上的绊脚石. 除了读者本身阅历限制之外, 这种情况发生常因为作者对典故的切入点与读者对该典的一般理解有差别, 或者因为用诗的语言改写后, 因为与原典一般表达形式的差距比较大.
用典因此被误认为杜撰. "杜撰"太多太奇而使诗难索解或给人一味求新异的感觉. 红楼梦第七十六回 "凸碧堂品笛感凄清 凹晶馆联诗悲寂寞" 史林二人中秋对诗中就有这样的例子, 一个说是用俗事难人, 一个说有旧典可查. 但有的典到今天, 据人民文学出版社的本子, 咱们还没有查出来:-)))
读时, 第二段"梦蝶"一典我是想到的. "东施效颦"也看到了, 只是没有太理解这一段的"眼", 因此联系不起来. “封候”, “白骨”和"春闺", helas, 我太孤陋了, 不知出处 :-( 不知原典究竟怎样, 但我感觉"思妇"好于"小姨", 可以让人集中精力于解读意象本身的涵义:-)
总的来说用典都很好的, 很佩服您这一点. 我已经改变了对这首诗的第一印象. 谢谢您的诗 and good luck for your "project hope"!
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外一首,以示谢意!
作者:光新 - 2000/06/26 00:04:27
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卢沟桥畔沉想
只恨
出生太晚 没能够
跻身大刀队
多砍 几颗鬼子头颅
浴血太行山
多掐 几朵”名将之花”
只愿
收殓 长城内外的忠骨
塑成大路标 警示万代
折断 戳进阴户的屠刀
划出惊叹号 穿越世纪
只有
历史明镜 勤擦
民族正气 常养
那些 仍在嘶喊的冤魂
才能 渐渐安息
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诗言志. 历史当记取, 永世莫忘. 多谢!
作者:wq - 2000/06/26 05:17:28
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