难句求译
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XY 于 2000/07/05 22:09:50 发表在 汉英
Governments are urged to promote only the safe and sustainable use of plant protection products and plant nutrition in agricultural production and to strengthen practical ways to enhance the application of integrated pest management and integrated plant nutrition.
sustainable 为“可持续”
最大的难点是把“only" 放在哪里。急求高见。多谢！
楼下的WQ君开的那帖线，我一直忍着没看。我知道一打开，就甭想做文件了。明天交了文件在再看。
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有心助您早点下班休息，只恨乏力，想了半天，弄了个半成品:-(
作者：he zi - 2000/07/05 23:31:52
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现敦促（各国）政府，推动农业生产中仅限于安全的和可持续的、对植物保护产品和植物营养素的使用。
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补课：促请各政府在生产农产品时，只推广安全可靠、经久耐用的植物保护产品和营养物（？），推行切实可行的措施，综合管理好有害生物和有益植物。
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/07/05 23:51:13
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Meunique
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Inspired,only FYR: 促请各国政府,对农业生产中植保产品和植肥的不安全,不可持续使用不予鼓励; 并加强切实措施,推动综合性害虫管理和作物施肥的实施.
作者：wq - 2000/07/06 01:49:18
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稍改一下这儿: "非安全,非可持续的使用则不予鼓励". 也许则字 implies 相反情况就鼓励, not sure.
作者：wq - 2000/07/06 02:03:47
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Sorry,稍改 again: 对农业生产中的植保产品和植肥,只应鼓励其安全, 可持续的使用;
作者：wq - 2000/07/06 03:39:41
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恐怕太迟了，还想帮一下。受启发，得：
作者：野草 - 2000/07/06 10:56:26
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“促请各国政府，在农业生产中，不选用不安全不可持续的植保产品和植肥，同时加强切实措施,进一步推行综合虫害管理和综合作物施
肥。”
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我也来一句难句求译：a worldly and cynical man--think of his regret at having to share the spoils of office with all the new bishops.
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/07/06 03:55:12
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In the Gaetano portrait, in the London Library's edition of Perrenot's collected correspondece, he seems slightly surprised, perhaps at his own ever-growing eminence. Motley says that Perrenot frequently instructed not only Margaret but the king himself what to say. He also told the king to conceal the source of his instructions, and the king habitually obeyed. One of the earliest measures of Philip's reign was undertaken on Perrenot's express advice--the reenactment of Charles V's notorious "Edict of Blood" of 1550. It seems at first sight surprising that Perrenot opposed the king's restructuring of the church, the device by which he had risen to his position; but he confessed, with engagingly open cynicism, that it was because "it was more honorable and lucrative to be one of four than one of eighteen." He claimed that he lost money by becoming archbishop, and perhpas he was forced to undergo further financial sacrifices for his faith when the duches of Parma, as a charming secret surprise for him in 1561, persuaded the pope to give him a red hat and make him cardinal. Over the gate of La Fontaine, his delightful country house outside the walls of Brussels, which he preferred to his palace within them, he carved a stoical motto: "Durate"--patiently endure-though Motley says that "by trading on the imperial favor and sparing his Majesty much trouble" he grew enormously rich. It says a lot for his character that he himself felt able to resist the evil effects that excessive prosperity had produced upon the people he ruled.
...
Perhaps Bruegel was able to give the cardinal a solemn assurance that he hadn't read the stories himself--that he'd simply heard them in church, or had them read to him by a properly qualified specialist. Then, again, Granvelle was a worldly and cynical man--think of his regret at having to share the spoils of office with all the new bishops. If Bruegel was a favorite , the Cardinal might well have been prepared to overlook small personal weakness. He was well placed to protect him, after all. But Bruegel must have been acutely aware how precarious his position was.
拙译：
在伦敦图书馆出版的一本Perrenot书信集里，有一幅肖像是Gaetano画的。画里的他似乎有点惊讶，也许是觉得自己地位日益显赫之故吧。Motley说，Perrenot不但经常教玛格丽特怎么说，而且还教国王怎么说。他还叫国王不要让人知道是谁教的，而国王则一如既往地服从了。当初，菲利普掌权时曾推出了一系列措施，当中有一项便是Perennot专门建议的。那就是重新推行查尔斯五世于1550年实施的、臭名昭著的“血诏”。乍看上去，这似乎教人惊讶，Perennot竟反对国王重整教会-他有今时今日的地位靠的也是它。但他坦言－－好一个大方的犬儒主义者－－那是因为"做四个中的一个比做十八个中的一个更光荣，更有利可图。"他声称做了大主教之后在金钱上有所损失。也许，为了信仰他还得在金钱上做更多的牺牲－－1561年，Parma的公爵夫人给了他一个秘密惊喜－－说服教宗给了他一顶红帽子，使他当上了红衣主教。他有一间很别致的乡村别墅名为La Fontaine，就在布鲁塞尔城外，他宁愿住在那里也不愿意住在城内的皇宫里面。他在La Fontaine的大门上刻了一句斯多葛学派箴言："Durate"-坚忍。不过，Motley却说他"靠皇恩再加上与陛下分掉许多忧愁"而成了巨富。倒有不少讲法为他的性格辩解，都说由于过度繁荣而在其子民身上衍生出来的邪气，他自觉抵挡得住。
……
一来，也许勃氏可以向咱们这位红衣主教立誓，保证他自己从来没有读过里面的故事－－他所知道的，都是从教堂里听来或者叫合格的专家读给他听的。二来，Granvelle精于世故而且为人玩世不恭－－看看他后悔要和这么多新主教共同掌权便知。如果勃氏是他心腹的话，咱们的红衣主教也许老早就不把他这些小缺点放心上了。毕竟，他位高权重，足以向他提供保护。但勃氏心里面一定非常清楚，他自己的地位是很悬乎的。
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Meunique
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隐译一如既往, 凝重确凿到位. Not sure: 这句可否说"此人名利心, 猜忌心皆重", cynical有无此意?
作者：wq - 2000/07/06 05:07:37
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我当初是这样译的：“Granvelle精于世故而且生性多疑”。但这样下来，后面这句话却变得有点莫名其妙了。
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/07/06 06:23:23
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窃以为，将“cynical”一词动辄译成“玩世不恭”或“愤世嫉俗”是不妥的。
先来看“cynic”一词的解释：
Cynic A member of a sect of ancient Greek philosophers who believed virtue to be the only good and self-control to be the only means of achieving virtue.
Word History: A cynic may be pardoned for thinking that this is a dog's life. The Greek word kunikos, from which cynic comes, was originally an adjective meaning "doglike",from kuōn,"dog". The word was most likely applied to the Cynic philosophers because of the nickname kuōn given to Diogenes of Sinope, the prototypical Cynic. He is said to have performed such actions as barking in public, urinating on the leg of a table, and masturbating on the street. The first use of the word recorded in English, in a work published from 1547 to 1564, is in the plural for members of this philosophical sect. In 1596 we find the first instance of cynic meaning "faultfinder," a sense that was to develop into our modern sense. The meaning "faultfinder" came naturally from the behavior of countless Cynics who in their pursuit of virtue pointed out the flaws in others. Such faultfinding could lead quite naturally to the belief associated with cynics of today that selfishness determines human behavior.
再来看“玩世不恭”和“愤世嫉俗”的定义：
玩世不恭：不把现实社会放在眼里，对什么事都采取不严肃的态度。(《现代汉语词典》
愤世嫉俗：对不合理的社会和习俗表示愤恨憎恶。（同上）
也就是说，“cynical”只是“玩世不恭”或“愤世嫉俗”的一种表现形式而已，不能完全表达这两个成语的意义。至于“cynical”一词在许多情况下却是“多疑（带讥讽）”的意思，如“She was very cynical about the peace conference and said the president was only there to boost his popularity.”
但是，这里的“cynical”除了译成“玩世不恭”，我却想不到什么词了。
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Meunique
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俺倒觉得挺合理:爱大权独揽,不欲分享者, 总是因为怀疑共事或副手要抢他的好处或先机啊.
作者：wq - 2000/07/06 06:57:41
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所以这个Granvelle对这么多人要分他一杯羹耿耿于怀, 后悔不及啊. 我觉得"玩世不恭"倒反而和后面的理由联系不上. 玩世不恭的人不是啥都不认真, 无所谓吗, 还计较和别人共事干吗?
查一下 The concise oxford thersaurus:
worldly
synonyms: worldly-wise, experienced, knowing, sophisticated, cosmopolitan, urban.
antonyms: spiritual, naive, unsophisticated.
cynical
synonyms: pessimistic, sceptical, scoffing, doubting, unbelieving, disbelieving, distrustful, suspicious, misanthropic, critical
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好象又有道理,因为多疑才会想到“做四个中的一个比做十八个中的一个好”。谢谢！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/07/06 22:45:22
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Meunique
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A story with engagingly cynical tone
作者：tian xin - 2000/07/06 06:08:03
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with engagingly open cynicism,
直率得迷人的玩世不恭
（he is so frank in his cynicism that he appears likeable)
It says a lot for his character that he himself felt able to resist the evil effects that excessive prosperity had produced upon the people he ruled.
他自觉能抵挡得住过度繁荣在其子民身上滋生的邪气，这很能说明其性格。
Granvelle was a worldly and cynical man--think of his regret at having to share the spoils of office with all the new bishops.
Granvelle精于世故且玩世不恭－－想想看，不得不同这么多新主教分享这一肥缺，他该是多么懊悔！
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我把“It says a lot”理解错了。谢谢！至于“spoils of office”，根据上下文，确实含有“战利品”的意思，所以译成“肥缺”似乎不妥。
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/07/06 22:51:03
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Meunique
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这一段接上面：But these were strange ideas, to say the least, for the Netherlands in the sixteenth century...
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/07/08 10:00:37
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And if Tolnay's right, he was also vulnerable in another way: he had a bit of a past. Tolnay believes that while Bruegel was living in Antwerp he was in contact with a group of geographers, writers, and artists called "the Libertines"--not rakes, but "liberal spirits, tolerant on questions of faith, enemies of confessional fanaticism, with a Stoic ideal of life, founded on the great belief in the moral dignity of the free man." Tolnay curiously insists that this didn't mean Bruegel was ever a herectic. But these were strange ideas, to say the least, for the Netherlands in the sixteenth century--and a number of the Libertines, according to Tolnay, had stranger ones still. They were members of a sect that he calls the schola caritatis, founded by Hendrik Niclaes, the author of The Mirror of Justice, a work in which salvation is envisaged being brought about by the power of universal love alone. All external cults are secondary, Niclaes believed; all religions are symbols of a single truth, and Holy Scripture has merely an allegorical sense.
拙译：
如果Tolnay说得没错的话，他尚有乏善可陈的一面，那便是曾经有过一段不太光彩的历史。Tolnay认为，勃氏居安特卫普期间曾与一群地理学家、作家和艺术家过从甚密。他们“有着自由奔放的思想，宽容对待信仰问题，与忏悔狂热分子为敌，是斯多葛式唯心主义者，崇尚自由意志下的道德尊严”。但他们不是登徒浪子，而是“自由思想者”。奇怪的是，Tolnay居然坚持说这并不意味着勃氏曾信仰异端邪说。不过，这些还算不上是怪论，因为在十六世纪的荷兰—据Tolnay说，还有许许多多自由思想者也是这样—持有比这些论调更怪的大有人在。他们隶属于他称之为“schola caritatis”的门派。该派别由Hendrik Niclaes成立。他是《明镜高悬》的作者。他在该书预言，只要有博爱的精神，灵魂就得以拯救。Niclaes认为，所有外表上的崇拜都是次要的；所有宗教都象征着唯一一个真理，而《圣经》不外乎代表着一种寓言意义罢了。
请问：上文中的“for the Netherlands...”是否作“because the Netherlands...”解？
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Meunique
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把ONLY译成“选择”如何？
作者：TGLX - 2000/07/06 06:15:53
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我的迟到的理解:-) (或曰猜解:-))
作者：px - 2000/07/06 11:04:07
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呼吁各国政府鼓励本国公民使用那些既安全无害又可持续使用的植物保护产品，注重农产品营养；采取切实可行的措施，提高病虫害防治一体化管理水平以及植物营养方面一体化研究、生产能力。
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非常感谢楼上驻军救济（诸君救急）！集大成的结果是：促请各国政府
作者：XY - 2000/07/06 18:13:18
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在农业生产使用植保产品和植物营养产品方面，只提倡那些安全的、可持续的使用方法，加强各种切实有效的实际做法，以促进综合性病虫害防治方法和综合性补充植物营养方法的应用。
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您放心吧! 各路友军都盯着您的烽火台呢. 但见狼烟升空, 拍马便到, 助您全胜!:-)
作者：wq - 2000/07/07 02:54:06
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