polis 于 2000/09/16 20:03:48 发表在 汉英
抱歉，因为翻页太快，今天才看到学而先生希望我贴出原文的帖子。原文是阿克顿勋爵评论新教迫害理论的一篇文章，所引的一段是论及路德的：
（路德认为）Those who will not hear the Church must be excluded from the communion; but the civil power is to intervene when the ecclesiastical excommmunication has been pronounced, and men must be compelled. For, according to the more accurate definition of the Church which is given in the Confession of Schmalkald, and in the Apology of the Confession of Augsburg, excommunication involves damnation. There is no salvation to be hoped for out of the Church, and the test of orthodoxy against the Pope, the devil, and all the world, is the dogma of justification by faith.
因为没有给出全部原文，所以让大家费神猜测，非常抱歉。从全文看，这里大写的Church应该指的是经新教重新诠释之后的广义的教会。我个人觉得，tian xin先生的理解更符合原意（渔夫的译文我以为也是这个意思，没有看出他们两者之间的差别）
我的译文是这样的（很老实的译法，不能象各位那么妙笔生花）：
“那些不愿倾听教会的人，必须逐出教会；而一旦教会宣布了驱逐命令，世俗权力便可以介入，个人必须接受裁决（？这里的come in是这个意思吗？）。因为，根据《施卡尔马尔德告白》和《奥格斯堡告白之辩护》中对教会所做的更确切的定义，逐出教会即意味着遭诅咒；教会之外别无救赎，相对于教皇、魔鬼、以及整个俗世，裁定正误的准则便是因信称义的信条。”
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谢！清楚了一些。
作者：学而 - 2000/09/17 02:21:34
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不听教会的话，就要革出教门；一旦革出教门，就没救了。
There is no salvation to be hoped for out of the Church, and the test of orthodoxy against the Pope, the devil, and all the world, is the dogma of justification by faith.
“被逐出了教会，就没有希望得救了；而根据因信称义的教义(条)，教皇也好，魔鬼也好，整个世界都要受到信仰检验。”
按照我这种译法，教皇也可能进地狱，魔鬼也可能升天堂。
不过，这后半句，我还是不大有把握。您给的全是上文。下文呢？是文末吗？
又，“men must be compelled." 我的理解是：“人必须受到强制”(不能全凭自觉，要有惩罚措施，如革出教门)。 men 这里应当是对人的泛指。 类似的说法 --
[For God is not served by any Law, but only by Obedience. Laws are for the Wicked, who will not embrace Love and Righteousness; they are, and must be, compelled and forced by Laws.]
(Jacob Behmen (Jakob Boehme) 1575-1624)
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To be "out of", or not to be "out of"? That's a question.
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/09/17 05:49:09
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Have you noticed the "cool" use of out of to signify "in"? An acquaintance was telling me about a company with which he does business: "They're out of Detroit," he said. "Are they in ... Pontiac?" I asked. "No, no, they're out of Detroit." "Oh -- Flint?" I asked. "They're in Detroit," he finally said, emphasis on the preposition, as if I hadn't been listening. I, brows up: "Oh! They're actually IN Detroit! I thought they were OUT OF Detroit."
Maybe I was unkind. Maybe he was using out of in the "from" sense: "conducting business out of a hotel room," "the QE2, out of Southampton," "a bat out of hell." But I suspect he was trying to sound less like a person with a widget supplier in Detroit and more like -- clarity?! Cool guys talk different, dude! -- a character out of Elmore Leonard.
Gerry L'Orange
Montreal, Quebec
Cool guys have been talking differently from others at least since Raymond Chandler's day. But I did find quite a few contemporary examples of this construction when I went looking for them, and most of those that weren't referring to shipping did seem to have something to prove. From Broadcasting & Cable magazine, for instance: "Studio executives say the show will be taped out of the Los Angeles Sports Arena and will feature 10 actors/warriors competing against three contestants." From The Washington Post: "At a public reception the other night, Michael Hinkle, 29 -- he now runs an art doll consulting firm out of Los Angeles -- fondly recalls his years of 'building a collection for Demi Moore.'"
out of or in
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Meunique
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