汉英的忠实读者 于 1999/11/16 19:41:06 发表在 汉英
纽约时报驻京记者Seth Faison在前天（十一月十四日）的纽约时报上撰文谈论中国成语，文章标题是Not-so-Ancient Chinese Proverb: Glib Truisms Gloss over Reality.
此人学了十多年的中文，自以为是中国通，但还是感到中国成语最头痛。现摘录文中一些中国成语译例：
鹿死谁手：Never know at whose hand a deer will die.
摸着石头过河：Feeling stones while crossing a river.
鳞次栉比：Packed in as tight as teeth of a comb.
一人得道，鸡犬升天：When one man finds the way, his chickens and dogs ascend to heaven.
Meaning: When a man is promoted to a position of authority, all his friends and relatives benefit.
八仙过海，各显神通：Eight immortals cross the sea; each shows a saintly passage.
Meaning: Different individuals can achieve the same goal in different ways.
天高皇帝远：The sky is high; the emperor is far away.
Meaning: Far from a central authority, one enjoys relative freedom.
说曹操，曹操到：When you mention Cao Cao, he soon arrives.
Meaning: I was just talking about you!
瓜田李下：Never pull on your shoes in a melon patch; never adjust your cap under a plum tree.
Meaning: Don't act suspicious if you want to avoid being suspected.
姜太公钓鱼－愿者上钩：Lord Jiang casts a line, a fish wants to be caught.
Meaning: Someone who is trapped willingly.
看来贵坛的古月讲得有道理，这类直译的中国成语，老外还很津津乐道呢：“Chinese wisdom!”
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那钓鱼的姜太公是不是汉英的渔夫？Lord Jiang casts a line, a fish wants to be caught. Meaning: Someone who is
作者：trapped willingly - 1999/11/16 20:09:52
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是“孤舟蓑笠渔翁，独钓一片雪白”的渔夫先生:-)
作者：Mrs Geoff - 1999/11/16 21:38:14
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So you're the first to be caught, or willingly trapped:-)
作者：-:0 - 1999/11/16 21:45:59
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Both!
作者：Mrs Geoff - 1999/11/17 01:01:44
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请问，那位高手能把文中的“Glib Truisms Gloss over Reality”译成中文？
作者：一时没词了 - 1999/11/16 22:44:22
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“妙语连珠粉饰太平”，如何？
作者：砖头 - 1999/11/16 23:15:16
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“舌灿莲花(油嘴滑舌)，把死的说成活的。”
作者：有这么点意思 - 1999/11/17 07:47:54
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You mean "A glib tongue can resurrect the dead"? Good!
作者：砖头 - 1999/11/17 13:02:20
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“鳞次栉比”的意思在英文里一般用bristling表示
作者：砖头 - 1999/11/16 22:50:17
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鳞次栉比的高楼大厦：bristling high-rises
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proverbs for "摸着石头过河"
作者：yuki - 1999/11/16 23:22:03
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Look before you leap.
Forewarned, forarmed.
When in doubt, do nowt.
Good watch prevents misfortune.
Hear twice before you speak once.
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Do they all carry the meaning of "blazing a trail"?
作者：not-sure - 1999/11/16 23:52:45
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"Feeling stones while crossing a river," imho, essentialy means to do something for the first time without any prior experience or expertise. So "blazing a trail" would be its closest synonym. All the proverbs you've offered, on the other hand, seem to empathize cautiousness which might be only a byproduct of the original Chinese saying.
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play by ear:
作者：Leroi - 1999/11/17 02:56:32
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perform step by step according to results(OED);
act in a situation as seems best while it is developing, rather than in accordance with some plan(Webster's).
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So it has been entered in those dictionaries already? Interesting!
作者：not-sure - 1999/11/17 09:06:05
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Crossing a river by feeling the stones
作者：野草 - 1999/11/17 10:30:52
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“摸着石头过河”，非常形象，不论中国人外国人，只要曾光脚丫
tang(足+尚)水过河的，一般都不难体会其中的感觉：吃不准哪深哪 浅，只有靠脚探摸，有确实牢靠的石头好下脚时才踩下去，接着再往前挪步。国内讲改革开放，常说它表示“路得往前走，但因为没走过，只好一步一步探索。”怎么译？我以为最好保留特色直译。
“Feeling stones whilecrossing ariver”，是该洋“中国通” 的译文，尽管体现了其汉语理解不太够火候，却足以表明“摸着石头 过河”不用脚注直译也可使人明白无误。可惜译文不够好，恐怕会令 人误解为：“过河的时候感(摸)到有石头”。如改为 “Crossing a river by feeling the stones” 意思大概就准确了。
Leroi君提出的 play it by ear， 意思有点象，说的是边干边改进 ，根据实际效果随时调整。但远不及过河形象，再说它源于音乐家作曲的improvisation，普罗大众恐怕不易体会，邓大人也不会用这种 阳春白雪的语言号召全国人民跟他走改革路。
至于trail-blazing，只强调了“开拓先锋”性，不准确。其它过于 强调“三思后行”的一类英语成语俗话，还没见一个可同“摸着石头过河”比美的。我还是喜欢光脚丫过河，摸到了石头心踏实。
一家之言，欢迎批评。
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Exactly! That's what was on my lips as well.
作者：砖头 - 1999/11/17 10:52:31
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"Crossing a river while feeling the stones" has a much clearer focus than "Feeling the stones while crossing a river."
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Crossing/Fording/Wading the river
作者：Leroi - 1999/11/17 15:11:25
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"Crossing ..."不甚妥，因为 这不仅指“光着脚丫”[足+堂]过去，坐船过去或做汽车火车从大桥上风驰而过也都行，又哪儿能“摸着石头”过去？用 fording ... 可表明过的是浅水，但坐在汽/卡车里或骑在牛/马/驼背上照样可以 ford. Wading ...如何？
另者，play be ear 原义指不看或不会看乐谱而弹/吹奏乐器，与阳春白雪无关。西洋古典音乐中有“即兴曲”(impromptu)， 本来也许是作曲家灵感汹涌随意发挥的即席创作，事后再记录下来发表的。Improvisation 或 extemporisation 都指没事先计划安排的活动，如演奏，演戏，演讲等。在一般口语或不太正式的书面语里，play by ear 是可以用来翻译“摸着石头过河”的。
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说说曹操 比 DEVIL
作者：野草 - 1999/11/17 14:10:11
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没拜读过原文，但相信该文作者对汉语成语俗话之丰富多采肯定是既叹服又头疼。所举例子，本人猜想，与其说是作者试图准确翻译，不如说是作介绍性的释译，可以说明洋人一旦稍知汉语原文的奥妙时的津津乐道，却尚不足以其作佳译而一概推崇模仿。说曹操那一条就是典型例子。
我就不信作者以后(哪怕在中国的正经场合)说英文也要用When you mention Cao Cao， he soon arrives。其实英语里有现成 的 Talk of the devil (and he is bound to appear)，和它一模 一样，干嘛偏要说“曹操”呢？保持文化特色？效果恐怕适得其反。洋人有谁知道曹操？就连咱这些所谓的炎黄子孙，又有几个真能准确道出“曹操到”的典故？对中国绝大多数说“说曹操，曹操到”的人来说，“曹操”无非是个虚的历史人物，谁都不知其模样，其实就和 devil 对洋人差不多。 真的要说 CaoCao，可别忘了它那发音，洋人 听到的、联想到的，可就不是曹操或鬼了，而很可能是chow-chow， 是狗儿狗食什么的，更糟了。所以，遇到该用“说曹操，曹操到”的时候，说Talk of the devil 最好。
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对，“碰到直译影响理解的，宜用意译”，此乃又一例。
作者：古月 - 1999/11/17 17:02:07
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其实口译时，Faison给的解释“I was just talking about you!”已经够好了。还免得当事人忌讳“Devil”。
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精辟!泛化民族色彩过浓 时代地域特征过强的形象的又一范例 谢谢!
作者：xd - 1999/11/17 20:12:08
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Idiom translation
作者：Fanghuzhai - 1999/11/18 22:02:12
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Sorry no Chinese input method today.
In idiom translation, there is a tendency to find English equivalent idioms, equivalent in referential meaning rather than in the image. The reason is that the target text must be idiomatically English, therefore, literal translation of Chinese idioms are often considered non-idiomatic.
But of course there is another view that says literal translation can introduce Chinese culture to the world.
Both are justified to some extent. Of course in practice, it depends on if the translation makes sense and causes no misunderstanding.
I prefer literal translation more to the replacement method as long as the translation conveys a vivid image and the referential meaning is not distorted. Many of the examples here are OK to me.
Indeed om discussing translation, we can hardly reach an agreement concerning idiom translation. But one thing that I would like to mention here is that recently I thumbed some books on translation studies and have come across a new idea that says we should not think translation as a way to "faithfully" render the souce text. This idea actually echos my idea in the 80 when I was a postgraduate school student in China and was considering translation as my thesis topic. I had the idea that translation is not a theory about "faithfulness" but one about "unfaithfullness". It is about how meaning, image, discourse etc get transformed in circulation across language boundaries. I dropped the plan and wrote on syntax instead, because I felt it was difficult to explain clearly the problems of translation.
(not spell checked, too busy)
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I know you'd agree with me in view of your past performance. Thanks!
作者：古月 - 1999/11/18 23:30:43
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I have often heard people use the term "Halo Effect", I wonder if that is a good translation for "一人得道，鸡犬升天："
作者：ds - 1999/11/19 21:54:51
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