Machine translator
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Many thanks 于 2000/01/21 11:52:37 发表在 汉英
I know there's a website which provides on-line English <-> Chinese
webpage translation. I lose its bookmark. Does anyone here know
its address?
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作者：汉英 - 2000/01/21 23:26:43
***
谁用过
发言者:可能性有多大
发表时间:1999年8月5日 21时03分36秒
来自:IP隐匿
不懂ＡＢＣ 轻松看世界，深圳中文翻译网站开通，http://www.readworld.com/index.html
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Thanks for the info!
发言者:古月
发表时间:1999年8月5日 21时04分41秒
来自:IP隐匿
回应:谁用过(发言者:可能性有多大 ,于 1999年8月5日 21时03分36秒)
要说可能性呢，不是已经有人试用过电子翻译软件了吗？把所有的英
文变成中文是可以做到的，能看懂多少就是另外一码事了。语言是千
变万化的，即使是电脑或人工智能，也离不开对语言现象的日积月累。
成功的翻译软件必须是一套能够自我完善的开放式系统，不仅应当可
以随时推陈出新，而且应该可以按用户专业自行调整对译词库，才可
能日臻完善。
古月
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ds
你们暂时不用惊惶
Fri Aug 6 00:08:44 1999
My son sent me this link:
http://www.readworld.com/translate.htm
It is an on-line English to Chinese translation "machine."
Well, folks, don't panic, you haven't been replaced by a machine yet !
I checked it out. Here is one example of what I got back.
Input: The pot calling the kettle black (五十步笑百步)
This is what the machine spit back !
可以叫水壶黑人祸中福的壶
So, rest easy tonight :-D ;-)
ds
PS: Sad but true: The problem with many English Instructions found in
the back of boxes and packages originating from China is that they look
like they have been translated by a word for word translating machine.
English is becoming the lingua Franca of trade and commerce. China needs
lots of better trained translators to meet the challenges of an expanding export market.
*******************************************************************************
翻得不错。
试了楼上帖中的一段话，
Sat Aug 7 01:04:11 1999
Well, folks, don't panic, you haven't been replaced by a machine yet !
I checked it out. Here is one example of what I got back.
很好, 人们, 别惊慌, 你还没被一台机器代替了！我检查了它。这是
我弄回了的一个例子。
*******************************************************************************
guide
稍稍学术一点就差多了。
Sat Aug 7 01:13:14 1999
请看“汉英”那篇TOEFL范文的汉译：
Scientists Vs. Artists
It's true that every society benefits from the work of its members. But how to evaluate the different contributions from artists and scientists sometimes seems to defy intellectual rationality. In a traditional society, science in its modern sense was not as valued as other schools of learning. In a modern society where the intervention of a utilitarian government is strong, scientists' contributions tend to be more valued than those of artists. But in a market economy where value judgment depends largely on the demand-and-supply mechanism, the situation could be reversed, especially, from an evolutionary perspective.
In the Chinese context, we might as well treat of this subject roughly in three historical phases: (1) traditional China; (2) China with a command economy; and (3) China in transition.
In traditional China, scientists were largely invisible; even the modern concept of science was introduced from the West. What we now call "natural or physical sciences" were rated as "lower learnings" in the old days. "Lower learners'" contributions, for example, the four great inventions, were not so much valued as those of classic scholars. Cai Lun, who originated paper-making techniques, and Zu Chongzhi, who first discovered the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter, were not so much heard of as Kong Qiu and Zhu Xi who dictated and compiled the classics. While almost everybody has forgotten the name of Zhang Mingsui, an astronomer of Tang Dynasty, who calculated for the first time the length of the meridian line, most people still remember such names as Li Bai, Du Pu, Bai Juyi, the poets of the same dynasty. One may jump to the conclusion that artists were more valued than scientists in the old days. But what about performing arts? Actors and actresses were dubbed as "xizi" or cheap entertainers and very much despised in traditional China. What's more, should "classics" be considered "art" or "science"? Do they treat of "art of government" or "political science," "art of human ultivation" or "science of spirituality"? It would then become a question of definitions. One may wish to play safe by concluding: "Applied sciences in the modern sense were not so much valued as other types of learning in traditional China."
In the Chinese society with a command economy from 1949 through the late 1970s, the government, commanding and controlling the economy, attached much more importance to the utilitarian value of modern science than to arts. Artists, except those for the eight model Peking Operas, all sank into oblivion. Their contributions were by far less valued than those materialized in A-bombs, H-bombs and satellites. Even the philosophical focus of college education shifted towards "science and engineering as the mainstay." Here in this phase, one would have no doubt that utilitarian science was more valued than arts.
Nowadays as China is in transition towards a market economy, its society is also nudging the West in values. When everything is left to the market forces, it is no longer for a classic scholar to evaluate the different contributions. As one can see, more and more artists are making money in astronomical figures for their appearances and artistic pieces while, as a ballad goes, "a missile-designer earns less than an egg-vendor." And this, to some extent, does point to a shift in social values. One can conclude, therefore, that artists' contributions are now more valued than scientists in the present-day Chinese context.
In my view, artists largely cater to our spiritual beings, and scientists, our material needs. The so-called traditional society as we know had in fact already reached a stage beyond a certain level of material development when people began to despise materialism and aspire for spiritual and artistic attainment . Paradoxically, however, this so-called cultural "progress" eventually brought about a decline in its material civilization and hence the need for a new phase of scientific renaissance to push the material development to another plane. Then as the civilization further "progresses," human needs will also climb up the pyramid gradually from the material towards spiritual and artistic tiers. It can be deduced, therefore, that artists' contributions are bound to be more valued than those of scientists when material well-being developed to a certain plateau, and the cycle thus goes on.
Hy00
科学家对艺术家
每社会得益于它的成员的工作，是真实的。但是怎么从艺术家
和科学家评估不同的贡献有时似乎对抗智力的合理性。在一个
传统型的协会，在它的现代的感觉的科学没象学习的另外的学
校一样被珍视。在一个功利的政府的干预是强壮的一个现代的
协会，科学家的贡献趋于是比艺术家的那些被珍视了的更多。
但是在价值判断大部分取决于的市场经济 demand-and-supply
机制, 状况能被颠倒, 特别, 从演化的前景。
在中国的上下文，我们还是粗略地在 3 张历史的相这个题目对
待：（ 1 ) 传统型的中国;
(2) 有命令经济的中国;并且 ( 3 ) 在转变的中国。
在传统型的中国，科学家们是大部分不可见的;科学的甚至现代
的概念从西方被介绍。我们现在把的称为“自然或物理的科学
”，在旧天作为“下部的学习”被评估。“下部的学习者的”
贡献, 例如, 4 大发明, 不是作为经典的学者的那些被珍视了
的这么多。蔡伦, 发源了做纸技术，并且 Zu Chongzhi , 第
一发现了一个圆圈的圆周的比率到它的直径, 不这么多作为
Kong Qiu 和口授了并且编了经典作品的 Zhu Xi 被听说。当
几乎所有人忘记了张明休的名字时，唐朝王朝的一个天文学家,
第一次计算了顶点线的长度, 大多数人仍然作为李拜记得如此
的名字, Du Pu , Bai Juyi ，一样的王朝的诗人。一个人可
以跳到艺术家是在旧天比科学家被珍视了的更多的结论。但是
怎么样表演艺术？演员们和女演员作为“ xizi ”或便宜的招
待员被授与并且非常在传统型的中国轻视了。而且, “经典作
品”应该被认为“艺术”或“科学”？假如他们“管理的艺术
或“政治的科学””对待，“人耕作的艺术或“灵性的科学”
”？它将然后成为定义的一个问题。一个人可以希望到由得出
结论安全的戏：“在现代的感觉的使用的科学不是作为在传统
型的中国学习的另外的类型被珍视了的这么多。”
在有通过迟了的 20 世纪 70 年代的从 1949 的命令经济的中
国的协会，政府, 命令并且控制经济, 比到艺术把更多重要性
纳入了现代的科学的功利的价值。艺术家, 除了为 8 出模型北
京歌剧的那些，都下沉了进忘却。他们的贡献少些迄今为止比
在原子弹， H 炸弹和卫星被显形了的那些被珍视。学院教育的
甚至哲学的焦点向“作为支柱的科学和工程”转移了。这里在
这张相，一个人将不有功利的科学是比艺术被珍视了的更多的
疑问。
现在当中国在向市场经济的转变，它的协会也在价值正在用肘
轻推西方。当任何事情对市场力量左边时，评估不同的贡献，
不再为一个经典的学者。当一个人能看，当时，越来越多的艺
术家为他们的外观和艺术的张在天体的数字正在赚钱, 当一首
民歌去，“一导弹设计者挣不到一鸡蛋供应商。”并且这, 到
一些程度，确实在社会的价值指向移动。一个人能得出结论,
因此, 那个艺术家的贡献现在是在现代的中国的上下文比科学
家被珍视了的更多。
在我的看法，艺术家大部分迎合我们的精神的 beings , 并且
科学家, 我们的材料需要。所谓的传统型的协会当我们知道当
人们开始了轻视唯物主义并且为精神并且艺术的 attainment
渴望时，已经事实上在材料发展的某个水平以外到达了一个舞
台。反论地, 然而, 这所谓的文化的“进步”最后引起了一在
它的材料文明拒绝并且因此对推材料发展到另外的飞机的科学
的新生的一张新相的需要。然后作为文明推进“进步”，人需
要将也逐渐地向精神并且艺术的级从材料爬上金字塔。它能被
演绎, 因此，那个艺术家的贡献被绑是当材料健康开发了到某
个高原时，比科学家的那些被珍视了的更多，并且周期这样继
续。
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不堪卒读
没错，我也试过一段别的，
Sat Aug 7 02:11:27 1999
要是翻诗，不知道会译成什么模样。
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请鉴赏译作，原摘http://www.usatoday.com, 机器翻译任重道远(旧帖)
作者：汉英转贴 - 2000/01/21 23:40:00
***
发言者:pli
发表时间:1999年8月14日 21时08分48秒
来自:IP隐匿
Taiwan on alert for Chinese maneuvers
By Paul Wiseman, USA TODAY
HONG KONG - Taiwan put its military on alert Tuesday as China issued another rhetorical blast at the island 's insistence that it be treated as a sovereign state, not a wayward Chinese province.
Taiwan called the alert to be on the lookout for any sign that China plans military maneuvers.
Meanwhile, Taiwan's stock market tumbled more than 3% on fears of a confrontation with China.
The trouble started over the weekend when Taiwanese President Lee Teng-hui said Taiwan wants to be treated as a sovereign state in international affairs.
In the past, it has settled for being considered a distinct "political entity" within one China. That semantic formulation kept the peace with the Communist Chinese government in Beijing.
China considers Taiwan a renegade province and is determined to reclaim it. China has threatened to attack if Taiwan declares independence. The United States recognizes Beijing as the sole legitimate government of China,but has pledged to protect Taiwan.
U.S. officials planned to meet with Taiwanese officials in Taipei Wednesday to discuss the situation.
Lee's comments, confirmed Monday by Taiwan's government, stopped short of calling for independence. Taiwan also says it remains open to eventual reunification with China.
But China's government is furious anyway. "This will bring monumental disaster to the people of Taiwan," China's official Xinhua News Agency editorialized Tuesday. "It is very dangerous to use the interests, happiness and future of Taiwan compatriots as a stake to engage in political adventures."
The controversy has raised doubts about whether China will go ahead with plans to send an envoy to Taiwan for talks this fall.
To many, the semantic change Lee wants simply reflects reality. Taiwan has its own democratically elected government.
Most Taiwanese, though, are happy with the status quo: de facto but undeclared independence.
"It is simply calling a spade a spade," says Byron Weng, political scientist at the Chinese University of Hong Kong. "Taiwan has been forbidden from calling a spade a spade for so long that when they actually do, it feels like a big departure."
Taiwanese government officials say that China uses the "one China" label to reduce Taiwan's clout in international affairs.
They also say that Taiwan should be able to deal with China as an equal in the talks scheduled for this fall.
"They put a 'oneChina' blanket on us," Taiwan's foreign minister, Jason Hu, told CNBC Asia.
"The reality is that we need a diplomatic status," he said.
The United States has said it won't change its policy of recognizing Beijing as the sole government of China.
China has used the threat of military force before.
In 1996, it fired missiles off the coast of Taiwan on the eve of the presidential election to intimidate voters into voting against Lee.
The scheme backfired: Lee's support soared, and he won with 54% of the vote.
In addition, the United States sent aircraft carriers to the waters off Taiwan to show support for the island democracy.
Political scientist Weng doesn't rule out a similar show of force by China.
But last time, he says, "It didn't produce, so why repeat the same thing? It wouldn't seem to make sense."
在为中国的演习的警戒上的台湾
由保罗·怀斯曼，美国今天
香港 - 台湾放它的军事在警戒星期二当中国在岛的它被当作一
个主权国家的坚持发出了另外的修辞的强风，不一个任性的中国
的省。
被调用了警戒在上的台湾为任何迹象注意那个中国计划军事的演
习。
同时, 台湾的证券市场与中国在面对的害怕上多于 3% 跌倒了。
麻烦来一遍了台湾的利·腾 - 休总统说台湾想要成为的周末在
国际的事情当作了一个主权国家。
在过去，它为被认为“一个不同的政治的实体”安定了在一个中
国以内。那语义的 formulation 在北京与共产党员把和平作为
了中国的政府。
中国认为台湾是一个叛徒省并且决心回收它。如果台湾声明独
立，中国威胁了攻击。美国作为中国的唯一的合法的政府认出北
京，但是发誓了保护台湾。
美国官员计划了在台北星期三遇到台湾的官员讨论状况。
李的注释, 由台湾的政府的证实的星期一, 号召独立突然停止
了。台湾也说它与中国对最终的重圆仍然是开。
但是中国的政府是狂怒的不管怎样。“这将把巨大的灾难带到台
湾的人民”，中国的官方的新华新闻社 editorialized 星期
二。“作为一根木桩使用利益，台湾同胞的幸福和未来从事政治
的冒险，是很危险的”
争吵提起了中国将关于其与计划向前进为谈话送一个使者到台湾
这下降的疑问。
到许多，李想要的语义的变化简单地反映现实。台湾有它的自己
的 democratically 被选了的政府。
最台湾, 尽管，与地位 quo 是高兴的：事实上但是不公开的独
立。
“它简单地把一把铲正在称为一把铲”，说 Byron Weng , 在香
港中文大学的政治的科学家。" 台湾从把一把铲称为一把铲为被
禁止了这样长当他们实际上做时，它看上去象大离开"
台湾的政府官员说中国使用“一个中国”到还原剂台湾的在国际
的事情的破布的标签。
他们也说当在谈话的一个平等者为这下降安排了，那个台湾应该
能处理中国。
" 他们放一 " oneChina “在我们上的毛毯”，台湾的外交部
长, 贾森·胡, 告诉的 CNBC 亚洲。
"现实是我们需要外交的地位”，他说。
美国说了它不会改变它的作为中国的唯一的政府认出北京的政
策。
中国以前使用了军事的力量的威胁。
在 1996 ，恫吓在总统的选举的前夕上离开台湾的海岸开除了导
弹进对李投票的选民。
计划发生意外了：李的支持上涨了，并且他与投票的 54% 赢
了。
另外, 离开台湾被送了飞机搬运人到水显示出的美国为岛支持民
主。
政治的科学家 Weng 不由中国排除力量的类似的表演。
但是上次, 他说," 它没生产, 这样为什么重复一样的事情？它
不会似乎说得通"
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比较：“东方快车2000”的“译文”
发言者:pit-nicker
发表时间:1999年8月14日 21时10分53秒
来自:IP隐匿
回应:请鉴赏译作，原摘http://www.usatoday.com, 机器翻译任重道远(发言者:pli ,于 1999年8月14日 21时08分48秒)
台湾在提醒为汉语调遣由保罗 Wiseman, USA今天香港 -台湾放它的军事在提醒星期二作为中国出
来另一个修辞学的吹在岛屿的
坚持那它被交涉作为主权国,不 waywar
台湾称警报进行注意为任何符号那中国定计划军事调遣.
同时,台湾的股票市场跌倒 3多个%在害怕的面对和中国.
麻烦开始高于周末当台湾的主席背风 Teng-hui说台湾想被对待作为主权国在国际事件.
从前,它已满足于被考虑不同的 "政治上的实体"在一以内中国.
那语义的形成守法和共产主义者中国政府在北京.
中国考虑台湾背教者省和下决心去开垦它.
中国已威胁攻击如果台湾宣告独立.
美国具结北京作为脚掌中国的合法的政府 ,但是已发誓保护台湾.
U.S.
官员计划符合台湾的官员在台北星期三讨论情形.
下风的备注,被证实的星期一由台湾的政府,险些做要求独立.
台湾也说它保持打开最后的 reunification和中国.
但是中国的政府无论如何狂怒的 .
"这将带来纪念碑的灾祸到人民的台湾,"中国的官方新华社发表社论星期二.
"它非常危险的应用利益,快乐和台湾的未来同国人作为桩从事于政治上的冒险."
辩论已提高怀疑是否中国将继续定计划传送特使到台湾为讲话这落下.
许多,语义的改变下风想要简单地反射真实.
台湾民主地说自己选政府.
最台湾的,尽管,是快乐的和状态 quo: de facto但是未申报的独立.
"它在简单地是啥说啥,"说 Byron Weng,政治上的科学家在汉语香港的大学 .
"台湾已经禁止的从是啥说啥为再见那当他们事实上做,它感到想要做大的离开."
台湾的政府官员说那中国使用 "一中国"标号减少台湾的破布在国际事件.
他们也说那台湾将能处理中国作为等于在讲话预定的为这落下.
"他们放 'oneChina'毛毯在我们,"台湾的外来的部长, Jason Hu,告诉 CNBC亚洲.
"真实是那我们需要外交状态,"他说.
美国已说它将政策不改变它的的具结北京作为中国的单独的政府 .
以前中国有使用军事的恐吓迫使 .
在 1996,它点燃导弹关台湾的海岸在总统的选举的前夕威胁选民进入投票反对下风.
计划回火:下风的支持高扬,并且他赢和 54%选举.
另外,美国送航行器运送者海域关台湾给看支持为岛屿民主.
政治上的科学家 Weng不划掉相似的给的看迫使由中国.
但是上次,他说, "它产品,如此为什么反复相同东西?
它不会似乎有意义."
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很有意思！但基本上各有千秋(旧帖)
作者：汉英转贴 - 2000/01/21 23:44:59
***
发言者:古月
发表时间:1999年8月14日 21时12分00秒
来自:IP隐匿
回应:比较：“东方快车2000”的“译文”(发言者:pit-nicker ,于 1999年8月14日 21时10分53秒)
惟有以下一点改进
"It is simply calling a spade a spade,"
“它简单地把一把铲正在称为一把铲”，-- 译王主页的“译文”
"它在简单地是啥说啥," -- “东方快车2000”的“译文”
似乎后者已收入一些英语成语。其它就没什么取舍之处了。不过，能到这一步对于不懂英文但是又有点猜功的读者来说，也算总比没有强了。谢谢！
*******************************************************************************
Re: 不过...
发言者:pli
发表时间:1999年8月14日 21时12分58秒
来自:IP隐匿
回应:很有意思，谢谢！不过。。。(发言者:古月 ,于 1999年8月14日 21时10分02秒)
本人乐观地相信并且预言，总有一天电脑的译作，特别是对已译过的文句的翻译，
可达到至超过任何单个大师的水平。关键是需要CPU的速度更快，软件能根据更多的前后单词
来判断中心词，这样在大量输入了历代各式译法，形成了庞大的数据库之后，优美的语句便
可信手拈来，我等只需略加修整即可。前景诱人！
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ds
Translation Machine
Fri Aug 6 23:18:40 1999
Thanks for the info. I read the posts.
Being a technocrat by nature, I like to see that we do have perfect translation
machines one day. But language is a more elusive thing than chess, so that
day may be quite far away.
Language is very much entwined with culture. If I tell an American
friend, "the frontier gentry lost his horse", would he know
what I mean ? On the other hand, if an American tells me, many years ago
when I first got here, that "it's like George Washington crossing the Delware", would I have
know what he meant ?
Several years ago there was an episode on "Star Trek; The second Generation"
in which Captain Picard had to make contact with a new alien race. This
new race speaks in a culturally-rich, highly metaphorical language.
Everything they said has is a metaphorical reference to some part of their history and/or
legend.
In spite of the universal translating machine that these guy have, they were unable to
communicate with each other. I think the episode is called "Darmok."
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Guide
Agree. Perfect translation machines
Sat Aug 7 00:28:33 1999
Perfect translation machines represent an ideal very much like the Kingdom of God or Communism which will come some day although nobody knows when.
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