Last Hermit 于 2000/02/18 01:51:32 发表在 汉英
Last Hermit
致汉英并诸位：大后方传来喜讯！
Wed Feb 16 01:32:09 2000
我终于找到了致富秘笈：《朗文英语语法大全》（A Comprehensive Grammar of the English
Language)，准备也各位一起奔小康！其中，可解It's who等难题。
然而，我已困乏，容我小憩片刻……
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跟贴目录:
汉英大姐，可否把这条语法部分恢复，以便跟贴？
作者：Lasthermit - 2000/02/18 03:11:08
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别着急嘛。一帖一帖搬也挺费劲的。网友最好各自将自己的帖文copy & paste一下。
作者：汉英 - 2000/02/18 03:16:58
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众人拾柴火焰高嘛！
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噢，谢谢！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 04:41:43
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Meunique
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占用一会儿空教室
作者：代课老师 - 2000/02/18 03:47:30
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Wed Feb 16 11:00:32 2000
既然您困乏了，您就先歇着，率部队突破重围肯定累的不行。黑板也别白空
着，抄来几段佳译供同学们欣赏。那首"The Kiss" 我相信咱们班的不少
同学会译的更精彩，谁来上黑板试一试？不许再说作业让狗给吃了。我认为
Kiss 的两种译文都离原诗有一点距离，可我自己又译不来，就尽给同学们
提问题，布置作业了。提一点要求，能不能译分别供农村和城市使用的两
个不同版本，让狗蛋们也浪漫浪漫。也算是借情人节尚未退尽的势头吧。
一、李白的静夜思的几种不同译文：
床前明月光，疑是地上霜。
举头望明月，低头思故乡。
So bright a gleam on the foot of my bed--
Could there have been a frost already?
Lifting up my head to look, I found that it was moonlight.
Sinking back again, I thought suddenly of home.
--Witter Bynner 译
I wake, and moonbeams play around my bed,
Glittering like hoar-frost to my wandering eyes;
Up towards the glorious moon I raise my head.
Then lay me down--and thoughts of home arise.
--Herbert A.Giles 译
A gleam of light streams down over my bed,
I wonder if it's the frost on the ground.
Raising my eyes, I gaze at the bright moon,
Lowering my head, I miss my hometown.
--黄新渠译
Before my bed
there is bright moonlight
So that it seems
like frost on the ground
Lifting my head
I watch the bright moon
Lowering my head
I dream that I'm home.
--Arthur Cooper 译
Abed, I see a silver light,
I wonder if it's frost aground.
Looking up, I find the moon bright;
Bowing, in homesickness I'm drowned.
--许渊冲 译
二、爱尔兰诗人Thomas Moore的 The Kiss 及两种译文，译者不明。
Give me, my love, that billing kiss
I taught you one delicious night,
When, turning epicures in bliss'
We tried inventions of delight.
Come, gently steal my lips along,
And let your lips in murmurs move,-
Ah, no! -again-that kiss was wrong-
How can you be so dull, my love?
"Cease, cease!" the blushing girl replied
And in her milky arms she caught me-
"How can you thus your pupil chide?
You know 'twas in the dark you taught me!"
译文一
给我一个对嘴之吻，爱人，
在那个美妙的夜晚我曾经教你，
当时在极乐的境界我们忘情享受，
发明了种种爱的游戏。
来吧，轻轻悄悄含住我的嘴唇，
让你的唇在呢喃细语中滑行，－
哎呀，不！这个吻还是不对－
你怎么这样笨，我的宝贝？
“不许说，不许说！”羞红的姑娘含娇带嗔，
用乳酪般的双臂一把将我抱紧－－
“你怎能这样责备你的学生？
你知道你教的时候周围一片漆黑！”
译文二
亲爱的，给我一个深深的吻，
我曾教过你，就在那甜蜜的夜晚；
当时我俩忘情地享受，
品尝了种种美妙的发现。
快，你的唇将我的唇儿探，
拂来游去，絮语绵绵，
唉，不对－－再来－－吻的又不对，
亲爱的，你真是笨得不一般！“
”不干不干，我不干！“
姑娘羞得红了脸，一双玉臂将我缠，
”老师怎好把学生怨？
谁让你教时是夜晚，一片漆黑看不见！“
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译文二似乎略胜译文一。/n
作者：旁观 - 2000/02/18 04:10:28
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Thu Feb 17 00:22:05 2000
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从W.Wordsworth 转看Thomas Moor Good to know.
作者：北美 - 2000/02/19 07:32:31
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一位以南美西班牙语与美国英语为双母语的哈佛人士说，他读唐.吉诃德时觉得特别亲切，而读起莎士比亚就有距离。这是两位他终生阅读的作家。
最近两天我在“楼上”专注Wordsworth, 没注意到“楼下” 的T.Moore. (他与那个哲学家16th AD 有关联吗？ ) 诗写得很有文艺复兴时期的味道。
本想试着翻译一下，但我的脑子还是在W.W 处。再等等看。
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I did look at this Thomas Moor person again, but still unble to translate...
作者：北美 - 2000/02/19 18:29:13
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Dear Sub.teacher:
I really tried to do the homework. I tried to translate
it over a cup of coffee. However, my brain ceased to function whenever I tried to concentrate. Those very words "kiss", "lips", "murmurs" are so...worldly and one dimentional.
And my heart is at the Lantern Festival. Sorry, I have to give up and come back no more. See you at other area.
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我这边只是闭门造车，不知道不同国家是怎么说的？
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 03:49:42
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Thu Feb 17 01:18:36 2000
1)It is I who___(am/is)to blame.
2)It's you who___(are/is)to blame.
是否不同国家有不同说法呢？
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I just asked an English gentleman
作者：xy - 2000/02/18 04:05:43
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Thu Feb 17 04:05:41 2000
For the first question, he said in real life he would not
say that, he would say I'm the one who is to blame. So it
seems that " It is I who IS to blame" is grammatically correct.
For the second question, " It's you who ARE to blame".
不是我为得满分非要去问Native speaker， 是想借条件便利，提供
个近似标准答案，帮您一把。
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最高指示！！！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 06:15:07
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传汉英大姐手谕：希望各军、政、党认真贯彻执行最高指示精神，并切实执行有关要求，彻底解放思想，大干，苦干，加23干，争取在极短的时间内超英赶美！！！
在关系分句和分裂句（cleft sentence)中，关系代词主语后面的动词通常与主语的先行词（antecedent）一致，如It is I who am to blame, It is Kay who is in command,It is they who are comaplaining.但是，在非正式英语中用宾格代词me时，动词通常与第三人称单数一致，如：It's me who's to blame.。在非正式英语中，第三人称单数也同样可以用在代词you表示单数指称的结构中：It's you who's to blame.（最高指示委员会：《朗文英语语法大全》（A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language）
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Meunique
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对不起，改斜归正！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 06:20:12
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Meunique
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再来改斜归正
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 06:26:12
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拜托：改斜归正！
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Meunique
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“Kind＋of＋名词”结构
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 03:51:00
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Thu Feb 17 03:33:21 2000
5、“Kind＋of＋名词”结构
问：下面哪句有问题，请指出来，并说明“Kind”一词属什么词；5、6该用单数还是复数？
1)This kind of films is popular.
2)This kind of films are popular
3)These kind of films is popular
4)These kind of films are popular.
5)These kind of films (is or are) popular.
6)(This or These species of spider (is or are)found only in the New World.
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试试
作者：xy - 2000/02/18 03:52:51
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Thu Feb 17 04:20:59 2000
1)This kind of films is popular.
2)This kind of films are popular
3)These kind of films is popular
4)These kind of films are popular.
5)These kind of films (is or are) popular.
6)(This or These species of spider (is or are)found only in the New World.
我怎么觉的1－5句都有问题呢。我觉得应是
This kind of film is popular.
or, These kinds of films are popular.
"species" 单复数相同。所以我觉得可以说，
This species of spider is found only in the New World. or,
These species of spider are found only in the New World.
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词性呢？
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 04:07:17
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Thu Feb 17 07:11:21 2000
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补答
作者：xy - 2000/02/18 06:37:20
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1)This kind of films is popular.
2)This kind of films are popular
3)These kind of films is popular
4)These kind of films are popular.
5)These kindS of films (is or are) popular.
6)(This or These species of spider (is or are)found only in the New World.
看了老师出题，估计那几天仍有许多人被困在山下，想答都答不了，怕老师着急，就积极抢答了，真是硬着头皮往上冲。结果没看清题，还得补答，扣分吗？
对您的提问： kind 在这里是名词。
5〕These kinds of films are popular. 我觉得 film 可以用单数,因为是指film这类物品，而不关心数量问题。下题中的spider 也是一样。
6）This species of spider is found only in New England. or
These species of spider are found only in New England.
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也来交作业：用个简单的测定法
作者：野草 - 2000/02/18 13:04:11
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首先，XY 说的对，kind无疑是名词。例句里没有一个是可以和当副
词用的 kind of (e.g. It's kind of hard./ He's kind of a sissy.) 相提并论的。
既然如此，判断该用 is 或 are，不妨先把 kind 与动词之间的东西 挪开，应该是一目了然的。
1)This kind is popular. => "IS" is correct.
2)This kind are popular. => "ARE" is wrong.
3)These kind is popular. => Should be "KINDS ARE".
4)These kind are popular.=> Should be "kindS"
5)These kinds (is or are) popular. => Of ourse "ARE" is correct.
剩下的问题是，究竟 of 后头该用单数还是复数？ XY 的解释又是对 的：因为用了kind，说话人关注的核心不是数量而是类别，因此一般 在名词可数时用单数，不可数时自不消说没选择余地。所以原来头四
句：
1)This kind of films is popular.
2)This kind of films are popular
3)These kind of films is popular
4)These kind of films are popular.
严格说来没有一句是正确的。如果放松尺度，唯独(1) 勉强可接受， 因为在实际使用中，在kind of 后面用复数名词的并不少见，有时 甚至还更可取。例如：
i) This kind of child is hard to teach.
ii)These kinds of child are hard to teach.
iii) These kinds of children are hard to teach.
iv) This kind of children is hard to teach.
尽管理论上 i、ii 才规范，恐怕人们还是更多说 iii、iv。这里有
时恐怕跟具体用什么名词还有一定关系，不宜把规则、规范绝对化了。
至于第6句，全取决于 species 是作单数还是复数用。后头的道理 一样，从略。
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万万不可！您才是我的老师！其实，诸位也别当我是老师，我这是抓着鸡毛当令箭而已。
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 21:42:29
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假如老师您肯定是名词的话，怎么
i) This kind of child is hard to teach.
ii)These kinds of child are hard to teach.
iii) These kinds of children are hard to teach.
iv) This kind of children is hard to teach.
第ii)句中的“child”不是“children”呢？
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Meunique
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意犹未尽，再补几句，希望讲得更清楚
作者：野草 - 2000/02/19 22:54:09
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先答您的问题：假如 kind 肯定是名词的话，怎么第ii)句中的“child”不是“children”呢？
显然，iii) These kinds of children are hard to teach. 绝对比
ii)These kinds of child are hard to teach.更可取。(ii)非常刻板，有矫枉过正之嫌，尽管语法未必完全说不通。不过，这好象跟kind
是否名词并没有多大关系，所谓名词数的一致，恐怕只是指名词短语的主要成份 kind 与句中动词 be 的一致。
意犹未尽，再补几句，希望讲得更清楚：
判断句子可不可以接受，针对不同需要得用不同尺度。如应付TOEFL考试，严格的prescriptive grammatical rules 就往往得压倒一切。结果可能是本来很地道的句子也遭“纠正”。例如
These kind/type/sort of films are popular.虽然these 和单数 kind等显得水火不容，句子却是极为常听得到，是地道怪类(idiomatic anomaly)。不论我们是否喜欢，这类“错”句在非正式场合都大量存在。但是，到了语言教师或编辑手里，这类句子就通不过了。怎么办？通常的办法是变通一下，包括换一种说法避免有争议的刻板。 如上句可改说为：
a. These kinds of films are popular.
b. This kind of film is popular.
c. Films of this kind are popular.
d. Such films are popular.
略陈陋见，供您参考。另外，谢谢您楼下的热情offer。咱手头虽有几本参考书，带汉语的却少得可怜，薄冰、张道真一类书，许多年前有过，也曾大受启蒙之益，见您提及，还挺亲切的。由于忙生计，虽对语言极感兴趣，对网上许多事却往往力不从心，而您有一股勇往直前的热情和干劲，加上博才广智，实在难能可贵，在下衷心拜托了！
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他是哪个国家的。希望各位答完后也告诉我，谢谢！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 04:09:05
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Thu Feb 17 05:50:51 2000
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这两天太忙，迟迟未答复，请老师见谅，现详细答复如下：
作者：xy - 2000/02/18 06:44:36
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That English gentleman is from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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奇怪，怎么只有新野冲上去呢？仁者无惧，诸位，上！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 03:56:12
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Thu Feb 17 11:34:06 2000
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别怕，给你们打强心针，再加一剂镇定剂！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 03:57:33
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Thu Feb 17 22:17:34 2000
强心针：说英语的人对于一致的规则常常感到没有把握。规定主义的教学法相当严格地要求语法一致。其结果是，人们常常感到这种一致与往往占上风的概念一致发生矛盾。如果不顾其他原则，而一味遵循接近原则，这样做的结果很可能被作为错误而受到责备。（《朗文英语语法大全》（A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language)
镇定剂：Go visit that site: http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/fugitives/courtrec.htm。Where many native
speakers sometimes raise questions that are so simple that even we Chinese students who got good study of
English grammar wouldn't ask.
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It's good to be back; kudos to Hy00
作者：laoliu - 2000/02/18 11:35:24
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The Word Police is hiring now! Take the test here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/wordpolice/three/
The final question:
If only people were minimally careful with their language, the Word Police wouldn't have to work so hard./ If only people were a bit more careful with their language, the Word Police wouldn't have to work so hard.
The answer says the second sentence is correct. Why?
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Reason: "Minimally" >< a bit more careful
作者：野草 - 2000/02/18 12:02:06
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1. If only people were minimally careful with their language, the Word Police wouldn't have to work so hard.
2. If only people were a bit more careful with their language, the Word Police wouldn't have to work so hard.
Reason: "Minimally" = in the least possible way. So the first sentence is actually telling people to be less careful with their language, which is just the contrary of what the Word Police desires. Right?
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Thank you for the clarification; more:
作者：laoliu - 2000/02/18 14:40:35
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Given the analysis, I now know that the second sentence is the proper way of saying it. But, in colloquial English, is the following also considered correct usage?
If only people were (or add just/only) a little careful with their language, the Word Police wouldn't have to work so hard.
If it is, I would think the "minimally" sentence should be acceptable, as "minimal," originally meaning "the smallest in amount or degree," has taken on the sense of "small in amount or degree."
For the above, I consulted Microsoft Bookshelf Basics Edition. (Not exactly an authority on linguistic issues, but I can't afford A Compenhenisve Grammar of the English Language. Pirated copy for sale, anyone?)
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My understanding: "Minimal" comparable to "little"
作者：野草 - 2000/02/18 17:29:04
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I'm afraid the problem lies in your interpretation of the word "minimally".
The use of "minimal" vs. "a bit", I think, is comparable to that of "little" vs. "a little". When we say one is minimally educated, we mean the person is hardly or marginally educated. = 没读过什么书 It is as good as saying: He has very little education. He has had almost no education.C.f. "He has a little education." 他还有点文化，受过点教育。 总之，说 minimal，口气是否定的，说自己的话顶多是自谦。
I don't think the authority of any grammar book would help much on this. If you're really interested in Quirk's Comprehensive Grammar, though, I'm sure you could get a cheap pirated copy in China (assuming you're in there?). In the early 80's, I remember, a yellow-cover pirated copy was widely available in 内部 bookstores. Just for your reference. Good luck.
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灯不挑不明...
作者：laoliu - 2000/02/19 11:39:13
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"Minimally comparable to little," that clears things up. Thank you!
I'll try to get the Quirk book. Thanks to Last Hermit, too!
From Microsoft Bookshelf Basics Edition, here's what misled me in the first place:
Usage Note: Etymologically, minimal is properly used to refer to the smallest possible amount, as in The amplifier reduces distortion to the minimal level that can be obtained with present technologies. In recent years, however, the word has come to be used to refer simply to a small amount, as in If you would just put in a minimal amount of time on your homework, I am sure your grades would improve. Critics have often objected to this extension, but it appears to be well established. To determine the acceptability of the newer use, we presented the Usage Panel with the sentence Alcohol has a particularly unpleasant effect on me when I have a minimal amount of food in my stomach. Under the strict interpretation of minimal, this sentence should mean only "Alcohol has an unpleasant effect when I have eaten nothing." If the looser interpretation is allowed, however, the sentence can also mean " . . . when I have eaten a bit." Presented with the sentence, 29 percent of the Usage Panel said that it could have only the "eaten nothing" (that is, the strict) interpretation; 34 percent said that it could have only the "eaten a bit" (that is, the looser) interpretation; and 37 percent said that it could have either meaning. Thus the looser sense of minimal is accepted by 71 percent of the Panel and must be considered acceptable in nontechnical use. In an analogous shift, the verb minimize is often used to mean "to reduce," an extension of its strict etymological sense of "to reduce to the smallest possible level." This looser usage is the result of the imprecision that usually attaches to the use of the verb in most nontechnical contexts. When a manager announces that The company wants to minimize the risk of accidents to line workers, we naturally interpret the manager as meaning that the risk is to be reduced to the smallest level consistent with considerations of efficiency and cost, not that risks are to be reduced to the lowest level logically possible. Even when used with allowable imprecision, however, the verb minimize should carry some implication that the relevant quantity is reduced as much as could reasonably be expected in the circumstances. Thus minimize retains at least an approximately superlative sense and so is inconsistent with modification by adverbs such as greatly or considerably, which imply that the verb is being used as a simple synonym for lessen or reduce.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition
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A little follow-up
作者：野草 - 2000/02/19 20:01:28
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I'm glad that you share my point finally. But please don't feel as if you had been really "misled" by what you cited. From the Word Police point of view, as probably defined in their mission statement, the "MINIMALLY" sentence is definitely WRONG. In reality, however, many native spakers of English DO make precisely this kind of mistakes. Hence the Usage Panel's disagreement you mentioned. As non-native speakers of English, shouldn't we feel proud of having reached the point of naturally commiting "native-speaker errors" ourselves?
Correctness or acceptability is just relative, a lot depending on specific linguistic and situational contexts. We may have to play Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde on this serious language forum, fortunately or unfortunately? :))
Thanks for your input and the discussion.
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老刘，您别急，我这儿有绝对正版的最高指示^_^
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 23:05:15
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《朗文英语语法大全》（A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language），华东师范大学出版社，￥75.00
前两天偶然间找到的，是中文版。该书有论无动词句子的，您我好象都缺了这一课（反正我以前有的语法书从未提及，尽管我经常看到这样的句子）。我打算抄完《数的一致》以及其他从前比较模糊的章节后，就把它抄上来。
由于发现自己的语法尚未真正脱贫，近来一气买了《薄冰英语语法》、《英语语法大全》（Collins COBUILD English Grammar)、《新编英语语法》（上海外语教育出版社，该书有一章专论Verbless Clause），以及前两天买的《朗文英语语法大全》。至今为止，我手头上的语法书也真的大而全了。
如果各位有什么语法问题，就尽管问吧，我尽量从中给你们找答案。野草老师，东忙西忙的，没空，我这学生就代答吧。
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Meunique
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Ha Ha Ha , got myself a diploma ! :-) :-)
作者：ds - 2000/02/19 17:15:34
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您非让我到黑板前面来犯错误
作者：hz - 2000/02/18 03:59:31
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Thu Feb 17 23:09:08 2000
我就硬着头皮，成全老师吧:-)
1)This kind of films is popular. 顺
2)This kind of films are popular. 不顺
3)These kind of films is popular.
4)These kind of films are popular.
这两句都难受。第四句也许能凑合吧，如果把“kind of”解成
“somewhat”的话，adv.
5)These kind of films (is or are) popular.
是are.
6)This species of spider is found only in the New World.
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您怎么忘了3T奖啦？结果不是皆大欢喜么？
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 04:02:08
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Thu Feb 17 23:26:47 2000
放心吧！
慢点，怎么又叫我做老师啦？
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行，于观:-)，我不要电冰箱或傻瓜相机，要书:-))
作者：hz - 2000/02/18 04:03:34
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Thu Feb 17 23:34:39 2000
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大师故居一日游，另送早午晚餐，茶水全免，房价优惠，如何？
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 04:53:45
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还是真的要书？袖珍本（火柴盒般大）《唐诗三百首》、《宋词三百首》、《元曲三百首》、《诗经》、《楚辞XXX》、《汉赋XXX》，任选两本。
抑或，《薄冰英语语法》（袖珍本）
附加条件：韩英是谁？
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Meunique
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呵呵，一天饭、一日游就很知足了，饭碗别也是袖珍的就行了！:-)
作者：hz - 2000/02/18 15:21:53
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“人人都说天堂美，怎比我洪湖鱼米香”，真不知道？！要不我为什么抗议，要您改称姐姐呢:-)
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哎唷，您可知道哇，我小时看电影都打瞌睡的呀，电影完了，我也就醒了。
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 21:36:12
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当然，《地雷战》、《地斗地》这些打仗的，是怎么看也不会睡着的。
不过，您那首歌该是《洪湖赤卫队》的吧？不过，那不过瘾哪，整天咿咿呀呀，我早睡着了！
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Meunique
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再打瞌睡也得知道韩英吧？:-)
作者：hz - 2000/02/18 22:14:39
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“瞌睡”二字不能提，提一提都传染。只好明儿再回来聆听您的教诲了:-)
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晚安吧，顽皮的妹妹！咦，现在才是22:14:39 呀？
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 23:10:30
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Meunique
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all the "fools" were taken
作者：yu guan - 2000/02/18 17:58:44
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Rest assured, he zi. all the "fools" have already been taken by one person, me. So you can get whatever you want, all the beautiful gifts.
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万分抱歉！第5条应该是These KINDS of...
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/18 04:00:44
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Thu Feb 17 23:23:57 2000
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语言，果真是个巨人！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/20 10:31:35
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content="text/html; charset=gb_2312-80">
style="margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:
l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list 36.0pt"> face="黑体">1.This kind of films is popular.
style="margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:
l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list 36.0pt"> face="黑体">2.This kind of films are popular.
style="margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:
l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list 36.0pt"> face="黑体">3.These kind of films is popular.
style="margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:
l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list 36.0pt"> face="黑体">4.These kind of films are popular.
style="margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:
l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list 36.0pt"> face="黑体">5.These kinds of films (is
or are) popular.
style="margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:
l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list 36.0pt"> face="黑体">6.This species of spider (is or are)found
only in the New World.
如果，这是一道考试题的话，肯定会让绝大部分中国学生傻眼！我相信最肯定无疑就是第5例，即These
kinds of films are popular其他的一概打X－－换上我也一定会是这样。因为，这些年来我们的英语教学都是正儿八经地跟随所谓规范语法（prescriptive
grammar）所定出来的框框，不敢越雷池半步，甚少让学生们接触informal
English。
但这些英语在英语世界里却比比皆是，可谓下至引车卖浆者之流，上至文人骚客，无不在使用它们。其中，不乏不买语法帐者。上面1－4例便是明证。据The
American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third
Edition Copyright 1992 介绍，它们不但见诸于日常会话中，更出自大文豪之手。这边厢，语法家们在叫嚷，应该如何如何守法，那边厢，大手笔们却不理不睬，我行我素。很多人见此，便跟着学起来。语法家们，恐怕也只有跺脚的份儿了。起初，也许还不接受，到最后，便听之任之，乃至接受了它们，或者说，从另一语法角度去解释它们。如上面1－4例，便有人将“kind”作形容词来看待。这样一来，四个句子便都可以接受了。语言，果真是个巨人！
所幸的是，如今的语法家们也不是那么迂腐的了。如夸氏等四人耗二十多年心血写成的鸿编巨制A
Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language，便有下面的例句：
These/Those sort/kind/type
of prties are dangerous(非正式用法）
并说它“说明了一种合乎习惯用法的不规则现象：名词和限定词those之间，以及名词和动词之间的数的不一致。这种不规则现象可以用改动短语的办法来避免”
These kinds of parties are
dangerous
That kind of party is
dangerous.
Parties of that kind are
dangerous.
Usage Note: The use of the plural
demonstratives these and those with kind and
sort, as in these kind (or sort) of
films, has been a traditional bugbear of American
grammarians. By and large, British grammarians have been more
tolerant, and the construction can be found in the works of
British writers from Pope to Dickens to Churchill.
Grammatically, the question boils down to whether kind and
sort should be treated as head nouns (analogous to species
or variety, for example) or whether they have become
semantically weakened to the status of a sort of phrasal
quantifier that functions like an adjective, analogous in some
ways to bunch and number in expressions such as a
bunch of friends, a number of reasons. If kind
and sort are unambiguously nouns, one would
expect to see only singular demonstratives and singular verbs
accompanying them: This kind of films is popular (compare
This species of spider is found only in the New World). If
they are functioning as adjectives, however, the plural
demonstrative and plural verb should be acceptable: These
kind of films are popular. In fact, the kind of construction
can be plausibly analyzed either way, which is doubtless why
writers have mixed and matched the number of demonstratives and
verbs in just about every possible combination. We find
reputable precedent for this kind of films are,
these kind of films are, this kind
of films is, these kind of films is,
and so on. There are only two reliable regularities: when the
plural kinds is used, the demonstrative and the
verb must also be plural: These (not this)
kinds of films are (not is) popular.
By the same token, when both kind and the noun
following it are singular, the verb must be singular: This
kind of film is (not are) popular.
To this may be added a word of caution to American writers:
despite the existence of ample literary precedent for these
kind of films, the construction has been so thoroughly
stigmatized by native grammarians that its use would have to be
reckoned indiscreet, if not strictly incorrect.
Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the
English Language, Third Edition Copyright 1992
不知为何，我常常想起这句古训：“防民之口，甚于防川。川雍而溃，伤人必多”
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Meunique
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清楚明白，获益良多，极为感谢！
作者：hz - 2000/02/20 10:42:42
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怎么样？我没骗您吧？您挑哪个，哪个都是对的呀！咦，您是不是用Netscape的？因为用IE是不容易看出有新贴线的呀！所以，我只好改用网景啦！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/02/20 10:52:52
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Meunique
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未解好意，的确愚钝，承蒙贤师不弃:-)。对，我用Netscape，只是需要把旧帖都变黑才能这么快看见您的新帖。
作者：hz - 2000/02/20 11:20:46
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