Should 祖国 be translated into "motherland" or "fatherland"? and why?
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Anonymous 于 2000/02/24 17:12:26 发表在 汉英
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Same thing. Both mean where you are from, father and mother, right?
作者：S - 2000/02/24 17:14:34
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How could father and mother the same thing?
作者：Anonymous - 2000/02/24 17:15:44
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Guess, in some cases, not the same.
For example, a guy's mother is British, and his father Francais, therefore his motherland is Britain while fatherland France.
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创造一个词 Parent-land
作者：歪 - 2000/02/24 17:16:55
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反正西方正流行 Political correctness。创造了不少新词，如 Chairperson 之类的。
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It all depends.
作者：Hometown - 2000/02/24 17:19:33
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If you learn English, it's motherland; if you speak German, it's fatherland.
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How about "homeland"?
作者：FZ - 2000/02/24 17:22:45
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Fatherland is more used in Germanic countries, motherland more Slavic countries, homeland is more for Anglo-Saxon
countries.
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Yeah, homeland 祖国; hometown 故乡。Parent-land isn't bad either.
作者：zy - 2000/02/24 17:26:54
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Fatherland Vs Motherland
作者：Anonymous - 2000/02/24 17:25:32
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根据考古，“祖”字既是“且”字，是男子生殖器的符号。“祖”的原始意义，一是祭祀祖先的宗庙，二是宗庙中祖先的神主牌位。先民供奉“祖”，实际上是供奉象征生殖力量的男根。“祖”的建立，标志着父系氏族社会的建立。一个新的氏族建立时，先建祖庙。以祖庙为中心，族长率群而居，谓之“籍”，后称“祖籍”。后来氏族变成了国家，“祖”便成了国家的象征。以祖庙为中心，国君率民而居，叫做“国”。后称“祖国”。
据此，“祖国”当然应译为 FATHERLAND。不知您意下如何。
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有两点意见，似应注意：
作者：正 - 2000/02/24 17:28:43
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1. 将甲骨文“且”字释为“祖”，似无疑意。将“且”字释为男根，为对男性生殖器的崇拜，为郭老说。此说颇具合理成份，为众所周知。但我疑其亦含不合理成份：即男女羞处，自有史以来，似都有遮掩的习惯，何独造字者(造字时当更文明)偏要不加掩饰地堂皇扬示？是否将“且”释为像墓石，祖庙之形，为对祖宗之崇拜，更为合理？
2. 至于祖国一词如何译为英文，又为另一问题。在这里，似仍应以英文中的祖国一字为何而定，而不应以我们对于中文中“祖”字或“祖”字的起源如何解释而去改变英文。不知尊意以为如何？
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非也，古时性器崇拜。在宗教、祭祀等方面性器图腾十分普遍。
作者：Anonymous - 2000/02/24 17:29:58
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也补充几点
作者：正 - 2000/02/24 17:30:56
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1. 我并未说远古无生殖器之崇拜；
2. 而且我认为郭老的假说有其“众所周知”的合理成份；
3. 但这并不能排除我或其他的人提出另外的可能性。对吧？
论证“且”（祖）字为男器之象形，应是一个具体的问题，需要具体的论证。单是抽象地一般性地说一点远古的现象，似乎还难于令人信服地，合乎逻辑地，排除其他假说地，确认它为唯一的真理。
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祖字
作者：Anonymous - 2000/02/24 17:32:13
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特同意您的高见。不过原贴的大意是问“祖国”翻 fatherland 和 motherland, 哪一个更合适。认为翻 fatherland 更合中文原意，并不涉及“以我们对于中文中'祖'字或'祖'字的起源如何解释而去改变英文”。
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补充两句
作者：正 - 2000/02/24 17:51:40
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您的问题显然是一个经过思索的，有趣的问题。我的话未说清楚，试补充两句，看能否说明问题，或另待高明。
关于“祖国”在英文中的对应词，我想有两点需略为注意：一是其本意似是“父母之邦”，亦即祖先生息之国，本来的国籍。二是其使用为表达这层含义最常用的标准词语，其他词，如汉语中的“本国”，“故国”，“古国”等等，也有这层含义，但不如“祖国”表义标准，准确。果然如此，照顾到以上两点，则我觉得仍以和英文中表达这个含义的最常用的标准词 motherland 相对应为宜。（motherland 为 a mothercountry，未必特指mother's country。fatherland 亦即 one's native country，盖与 motherland 同义，但在德语中更为常用，亦未必专指 father's country。也许，祖国译为 parentland 或类似的词更好一点。）
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A kinder gentler nation...
作者：ds - 2000/02/24 22:20:21
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The mother figure is always that of a kinder and gentler person whereas
the father figure is one of authority and discipline. IN Chinese
we refer to the mother as ("family"+"gentle") and the father
as ("family"+"stern").
I guess if you want to present a kindler and gentler image
of your homeland , you should refer to it as the "Motherland".
On the other hand, if you want to project an image of a
disciplined, militaristic, authoritarian nation like that
under UNO WHO in Germany in the 30's, you can always refer
to it as the Fatherland.
ds
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What if Jesus comes and rules the world?
作者：Easy - 2000/02/24 23:35:09
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The Kingdom of God must be a fatherland.:-))))
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That could be a problem since...
作者：ds - 2000/02/26 00:30:38
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Jesus is only 1/3 of the Trinity.
Besides , if I have my rathers, I rather have a
motherly figure as a god; kinder and gentler and
less vindicative and vengenful . I don't have to look
over my shoulder and worry about him sending his
"rod of anger" against me or send his 4 horsemans
chasing me around ! :-)
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