向汉英讨个公道
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路见不平 于 2000/02/29 20:28:30 发表在 汉英
尊敬的汉英：
Cummings的那首诗究竟犯了哪家大忌？
有人翻译、理解时用词有过，与C何干？
俺觉得C揭示了语言技巧。如果读者心
中不淫，完全可以不带任何淫念去诠释
原诗的。中文里的“绿水围着青山转”、
“一柱擎天”等等，淫者也会见淫的。
这正是值得讨论的语言点，怎么就如此
轻率地在个别网友建议下删掉呢？
俺记得此前有篇“Art of F**k”，比
Cummings的诗要直截了当得多，您不是
先应部分网友要求删了，后又应另一部分
网友要求重帖了吗？各人对言论自由的看
法并不一致，并非所有人都要求删，您也
得尊重另一部分人的意见吧？俺希望您一
碗水端平，将那诗重新登出来。
链接：The Art of Fuck
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朋友，正是为了端平一碗水才删帖的。
作者：汉英 - 2000/02/29 21:00:22
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咱们朋友一场，请千万谅解。汉英论坛作为学术圣地，不能因为关系亲疏而搞双重标准。尽管各人都有自己的理由，但是，如果给人感觉不好，客观上可能有损论坛形象。
您做的链结并不是独立帖线，而是附在另一主帖线下的已经删掉的帖线。页面目录上是找不到的。如果循下面的链结可以看到来龙去脉。主张删帖的还是多数。难道就不能从网友的意见中得到启发吗？
请多多谅解吧！
汉英
链接：禁区
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【汉英论坛】未必是什么“圣地”，若说“胜地”只怕...
作者：大头 - 2000/02/29 21:35:06
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只怕还比较接近；何况在此的帖子并非篇篇都与学术相关。倘若“给人感觉不好，客观上可能有损论坛形象”就能构成删帖的理由，则不仅与论坛自己公布的规则不合，而且该删的恐怕就太多了。比如那些有打情骂俏之嫌疑的帖子，包括本人的若干帖在内，或许都在该删之列。
本人坚持认为学术讨论无禁区，否则就会加入太多人为因素。况且【汉英论坛】的网友都相当成熟，偶尔有一两帖出格一点又有什么不得了的呢，何苦为了一两个人而放弃言论自由的原则呢？这样未免得不偿失吧？
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论坛是汉英的，她想删就删。我若不服，自己弄一个论坛。
作者：吉 - 2000/02/29 21:45:25
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您说得也有理。在人屋檐下，焉能不低头！？当然，如果...
作者：大头 - 2000/03/01 08:15:19
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如果汉英坛主愿意付出一定的代价（言论自由的代价），把房子盖得比别人的高一些，那么我们大家或许在此就都不需要低头了，对不对？
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不知又有啥帖被删。但是佩服大头的前后一致。
作者：海啸 - 2000/02/29 23:05:22
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他维护言论自由，就维护任何人的言论自由，无论亲疏。
不过听上去好象我们的斑竹倒也是要删一律删的:0)
态度一贯总比双重标准高。
不瞒各位，小弟无才，但是赞成学术无禁区。不过，小弟
还真不知什么被删了，很好奇。能让小弟瞧瞧吗？
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海底深处
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问题虽说不大，但确实有点无聊。
作者：汉英 - 2000/02/29 23:33:11
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唉！细想一下真是让汉英很难办哪。男士女士理解万岁吧！
作者：吉 - 2000/03/01 03:14:07
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多谢各位！理解万岁！
作者：汉英 - 2000/03/01 17:25:51
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大头你好！好久不见。
作者：阿飞 - 2000/03/01 04:25:05
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阿飞兄好！好久不见，过完年回来了；有空给咱扯扯祖国的大好形式。
作者：大头 - 2000/03/01 08:04:58
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此言差也，斑竹！
作者：路见不平 - 2000/02/29 22:44:29
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(1) Cummings的诗没有一个淫字或脏字，
不能完全类比A.of F.
(2) 即使是A. ofF.那样的帖子，也有不少
象大头那样的网友为它辩护呢。我觉得tian xin
在这方面的宽容态度值得我们借鉴：
作者：tian xin - 2000/01/05 23:02:27 ***
If understood, life is simply a jest;
If misunderstood, life becomes a pest.
Once overcome, life is ever at rest.
For netizens of Hangying, life is a test.
When lightened with love, life is at its best.
链接：为“ART OF FUCK”招魂！
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还是删掉的好。What a big deal? 大家轻松一点吧！
作者：古月 - 2000/03/01 00:04:20
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我对那帖也没有太大兴趣，参与“正”谈雅的讨论完全是泛泛而谈，没有专门针对那首诗的翻译。
您说那诗有别于 the Art of F**k还有一点道理，但也不至于因此把那帖再翻出来吧？大家还是轻松一点好吧？何必小题大做呢？
共勉！
古月
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对不起，刚看到。
作者：路见不平 - 2000/03/01 07:28:20
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本来就是一次朋友间轻松的交流麽，如同
他人一样，看到任何敌意吗？俺可不知道谁
小题大做，挥舞大棒了。似乎此地只需州官
放火，不许百姓点灯？但愿不是。保重！
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几句题外话，并无冒犯之意！
作者：px - 2000/03/01 08:22:02
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想到隐士君都能修电脑了，心里急得不得了:-)今天立马参加了单位组织的电脑培训班。课间休息，“学生”们意见提个不停。有的要求两次课并作一次，有的提出学习时间也要“公私兼用”，有的主张周六集中，有的反映周日有空。东说东，西说西，公说公，婆说婆。只苦得负责安排的小同志不知该听谁的，黑着个脸离开了教室。。。。。。回来又看到论坛上的争论，咱琢磨着，如果人人都能多一分理解，人人都能从善意的角度揣度他人，人人都能设想换位体验，那么，斑竹也好，网友也好，大家的“坛上日子”就能过得更轻松一点了。不是吗？谢谢！
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看来这位心态挺平静、挺正常。
作者：海啸 - 2000/03/01 09:14:38
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哥们儿、姐们儿都这样与人为善，多好！呵，小弟困了。晚安！
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海底深处
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汉英大姐，就以链接形式放那儿，愿看的就进去，不愿的不看
作者：学生 - 2000/03/01 10:52:24
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见仁见智是感觉也
俗雅修养非天生也
路见不平非过客也
需知汉英为众虫也
删与不删实为次也
自心杆称自站直也
才华横溢多大师也
交流学习并和祥也
说到底，你我他，男生女生都喜欢汉英 ，不是吗？ 那麽
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早知楼下村姑和珍珍打的火热，就不贴上贴了
作者：老生 - 2000/03/01 11:41:53
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罢也罢也，不经几事不长几智。 此生从此知了也。 珍珍，你有时真是，不 ，是本人真是 。 。 。
曾经灿烂爱顽的小学生， 从此老了也
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et vous?
作者：非过客 - 2000/03/01 16:32:04
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本是好友在交流也
突然杀出一对怪也
学生光线非新客也
深知姜公太偏执也
假充上帝当判官也
真伪君子天地知也
才华横溢心要正也
想得真经别神经也
一隆好玩，怪名泛滥，说怪不怪，怪才作怪，“新客”，“再见”，无银三百。
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呵呵呵，对不起 ，打扰了，你们好友继续接着交流。 一定下不为例。
作者：学生 - 2000/03/02 00:47:37
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也已作了反省，特知自己之错（是说没资格没必要说所谓劝解的话）。 除了确实是替汉英大姐担心并想祝她好外。 也知自己曾误解之错（包括误解您）。还将自省，有帮助更好。
说您非过客，不是说与你的 "路见不平"的笔名有矛盾，只是说您可能 对此坛是熟悉的， 所以对汉英的苦心就有个体谅吧。但还是自己误解，因为您也是为了汉英更好，意见不同而已。 至於本人的笔名，随您批吧。怪倒不怪，自供何怪。新有多新，也无所谓。 "才"不敢当，"经"也罢了。倒是确有充 "判官"之嫌，神之名就不要提了。 "再见"是因个人家事（真欲测谎，烦请mail汉英。只是请不要再将个人私事来开玩笑，谢谢。）
本也无必要再说这些，只是想借此为自己的浅薄及不理解人道谦。如曾有怪话冒犯任何人，请谅！
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甭想得那么严重，不自知，焉知人？
作者：非过客 - 2000/03/02 08:23:36
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若讲熟悉，俺不及你一点零头。俺没时间，
也没精力替他人守夜，所以迟复，乞谅！
平常劝解呼？何需夹枪带棒？言行一致呼？系铃自解。
天下本无事，过敏自扰之。共勉！
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说得对，不自知，焉知人。 好了吧 ： ） ） ）
作者：学生 - 2000/03/02 12:58:27
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您看我这偏若纠得差不多了，咱就省点儿时间，您切磋翻译，我得补补作业了。 谢共勉。
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Go fishing instead, no homework assignment for today ;)
作者：correspondence teacher - 2000/03/02 17:06:05
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Speech Is Not Free
作者：laoliu - 2000/03/01 12:00:38
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I wonder aloud why anyone would think this is a free speech issue. Hy00, by its mission, is a place for “汉英互译技巧和修辞手法的交流”. Although it isn't stated specifically that lewd language is prohibited on this forum, it is more or less expected, considering the previous controversy over the Art of F thread, and the facts that the owner is a 大姐 and that at least one female poster was offended when Hy00 first considered removing the thread.
Hy00 is run by a private person or group of persons, who is free to impose restrictions any way she wishes. Even a democratic government or organization that guarantees free speech has reason sometimes to limit speech. FCC, the U.S. agency that oversees, among other things, the radio and television industries, bans the use of seven words in broadcast, as opposed to cable, programs. Each violation carries a fine of $10,000(?). The broadcast of live call-in shows in the U.S. is actually delayed for seven seconds so that there is time to bleep out the expletives. Admittedly, since no membership is required and the participants are legion, Hy00 has taken on a public, egalitarian hue. But that doesn't mean anything goes here. Rather, from the posted rules, the decided precedents, and the totality of the forum's idiosyncrasies, we get a feel of just what is appropriate and what is not. As long as the restrictions and their enforcement are somewhat consistent and reasonable, I shall not complain.
Disclaimer:
1. I'm not a prude. I'm a dirty old man.
2. I didn't write anything in that thread not because I knew better, but because I didn't have anything valuable to say.
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i enjoy Laoliu's postingS
作者：not a prude - 2000/03/01 12:22:08
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I enjoy reading it!!!
作者：a comrade - 2000/02/28 18:29:18 ***
there're so many gendre cops here. i enjoy Laoliu's reasoning.
作者：Jane - 2000/02/29 17:00:02 ***
From the home office in Wahoo, Nebraska, here is tonight's Top Ten list:
作者：laoliu - 2000/02/28 17:32:43 ***
The Top Ten Signs That A Poster Is A Female Impersonator:
10. He likes cakes.
9. He always misspells "brassiere."
8. His electronic text reeks of man's sweat.
7. He forgets to close the quotes.
6. He asks for help. No, Help!!
5. He is always polite and never fails to say thank you.
4. He is a hoax-meister.
3. He MIGHT be a female impersonator.
2. He calls himself Tiffany.
(Drumroll, Anton.)
1. Jesse says so!
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Now I don't easily blush ...
作者：laoliu - 2000/03/01 12:43:49
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What I was trying to say was I could have posted something in the cummings thread if I had something interesting to say, but when Hy00 says "Halt!", I will stop.
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no other meaning, just agree your points
作者：xue sheng - 2000/03/01 13:34:02
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I saw some of your recently (I'm kind of new-comer) postings and I really like them including the above ones, really. I like the thoughts, style, and tunes. So no other meaning.
a friend or a student
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My fault
作者：laoliu - 2000/03/01 14:13:09
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I responded to your previous posting by saying "Now I don't easily blush ..." and the text in the message body was actually an addendum to the "Speech Is Not Free" posting. I should have been more clear.
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I know (not mean the fault)
作者：xue sheng - 2000/03/01 14:45:03
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I mean I know it was actually an addendum to that posting. Just want to borrow a chance to express my appreciation. Good day (another sign of impersonator?).
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Love ya! *air kiss* *air kiss*
作者：laoliu - 2000/03/01 15:00:57
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No, and should not.
作者：last response - 2000/03/01 14:55:59
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After saying this, I'll never look at this thread again. time to go to class now.
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Well said.
作者：reader - 2000/03/02 16:03:25
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You are right: this is not a free speech issue and we all get a feeling of what is appropriate and what is not. The original poster didn't mean to offend anyone and didn't make it a free speech issue. It is some onlookers who labeled it as one to make it an easy target to attack. A particular visitor has never failed to make his appearance whenever there is something up, though you seldom see him at this forum.
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Okay, enough is enough. It's a good lesson for everybody.
作者：reader02 - 2000/03/02 18:37:49
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The friendly mood can easily go sour if there's a lack of respect for each other. Let's all remember Hy00's motto "Old or New, Senior or Junior, Wit & Wiz Are All We Care !" Good night!
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