计划送个人去日本读书。请问需要哪些手续？是否一定需要找经济担保人？
谢谢
发言者:宝哥哥
发表时间:1999年8月21日 01时06分20秒
宝哥哥
so, please translate?
Thu Dec 31 02:00:49 1998
林妹妹对我说：你真真是我命里的天魔星！！
the other day, she also said: 噢， 你原来不过也就是个银样蜡头枪！
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古月
So,what's the reward? Let me have ur Black Jade?
Thu Dec 31 03:37:40 1998
>>林妹妹对我说：你真真是我命里的天魔星！！
咱们先对文本解读一番，省得译出来众口难调。
大家都知道“天王星”，却不一定听说过“天魔星”。这里用的是偷
梁换柱法，把“王”换成了“魔”，反映了林妹妹什么心态呢？咱觉
得是一种“爱－恨”情结。“爱”，非他莫属；“恨”，怨其不争且
恐难得手。这是一种剪不断理还乱的情结。宝玉也是个有名的混世魔
王。“魔”字象征魔力：既有魅力，又会造成伤害。就象男士们形容
某女子身材好时用“魔鬼身材”来表达一样，是流着口水对可望不可
即之物表达的一种爱恨牢骚。
基于以上解读，这里如果简单地将“天魔星”译成“demon(妖魔),
demogorgon(魔王)，demigod(神人)”等，都不恰当；一来不能表
达林妹妹所要表达的双重感情，二来那种语言上的“滑腔”效果更是
丧失殆尽。从“爱”的感情上来说，宝玉在黛玉心中确有“天王星”
的地位，但是，当面又不宜这样恭维，况且对于惟恐得不到的真心所
爱，也难免带有某种复杂的妒意，所以在潜意识中的爱称临到嘴边时
滑一下腔，随机偷梁换柱应是机智才女常用的遣词手法。这一点应该
在译文中反映出来。
让咱先试试：
Sister Lin said to me, "You're indeed my predestined Uranusssss...' counterpart in the Hell!"
效果相当于："You are our President...-appointed desk clerk."
>>the other day, she also said: 噢，你原来不过也就是个银样蜡头枪！
这句也可先解读一下，但时间不早了，抱歉！直译在此吧：
Oh, you're nothing but also a bantam cock!
古月
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宝哥哥
Dream you! And,...
Thu Dec 31 04:40:21 1998
Black Jade's made for me, :-<
Don't you think it's toooo dirty for Black Jade to say : "you're nothing but a bantam cock!"?
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古月
Well, if you wish to think that way...
Thu Dec 31 10:48:36 1998
A bantam cock is just one of numerous small domestic fowls that are often miniatures of members of the standard breeds. It looks fierce and militant but too small or too insignificant to be reckoned with. It's like "tiger-looking cat." If it reminds you of something else, then it can serve as a pun, which must be the result of somewhat recent evolution. Well, speaking of recent evolution, its Chinese counterpart, 银样蜡枪头, can be a similar pun as well.
If you don't like this "bantam cock", you may wish to use "tiger-looking cat" for 银样蜡枪头 instead.
Happy New Year!
Gu Yue
*A ke ma shi te o me de tou go za i ma su!! (nt) by 宝哥哥 , Fri Jan 1 00:11
*999-fold in a happy 1999!/nt by 古月 , Fri Jan 1 00:13
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*宝玉的原话更脏/nt by www , Sat Jan 2 09:33
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宝哥哥
Yes, exactly! Yet, please,
Sat Jan 2 22:57:02 1999
Black Jade's my sweetheart ：黛玉。She's noble, elegant, and gentle. She would never use dirty or abusive words like what's translated here, :-)
As for me--宝哥哥, 我是混世魔王， 我是大老爷们，我说脏话我怕谁？
Sure, my words: " How can a man, who is always sick for I'm too sentimental, not be charmed by your beauty which causes cities and kindoms to fall?" It's originally from " The Romance of West chamber". They call it“淫词艳曲”。
Black Jade's words " 你原来不过也就是个银样蜡头枪！" is also from " The Romance of West chamber". It's a pun, of course! Here, she teased me as being easy to get scared......
How about "You are nothing but a flowerless sprout"??
BTW, I posted it here also in a hope that it can serve as a pun, (^_^) (^_^)(^_^)....
For the first, "你真真是我命里的天魔星," I am also not satisfied for both its "text interpretation" as well as "language translation".
For: "You're indeed my predestined Uranusssss...' counterpart in the Hell!" is exact in meaning, but it's not my sweetheart's words, :-)
Uranusssss is too scientific; while "Hell" is not a word in Black Jade's vocabulary, :-)
At the time when Black Jade said this to me, we were still: 青梅竹马， 两小无猜。
She doesn't have any fear, worry, and anxiety. We believe each other as two hearts beating as one...
She just wanted to say to me: you are indeed the one for me to "hate to love", (^_^) Because at that moment i was so naughty and did mischief with her...
This is only my humble opinion, don't take it seriously. Tell those HONG experts if you have a chance now that Black Jade is unique for me,:-)
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Gu Yue
You can keep your own version, no problem. But...
Sat Jan 2 23:55:40 1999
In the first place, "Uranus" is not a scientific term. It's the name of a god that science borrowed from the Greek mythology. See the authoritative source from the Webster dictionary:
Uranus (noun) [Late Latin, from Greek Ouranos]
1 : the sky personified as a god and father of the Titans in Greek mythology
2 : the planet seventh in order from the sun
Secondly, you say "Hell" is not in your Black Jade's vocabulary? But to me, “魔”(demon or devil) can only be
found in the Hell.
What's more, when "www" said "宝玉的原话更脏", he meant this origional "银样蜡头枪" is dirtier than "bantam cock." But to me, this "银样蜡头枪" can be a pun almost equal in value as "bantam cock."
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宝哥哥
其实..
Sun Jan 3 01:02:11 1999
"银样蜡头枪" is from " The Romance of West chamber"(西厢记)。 Here's quoted by Black Jade, not by Magic Jade.
Black Jade, in her response, is kidding Majic Jade：
你也是个假家伙！
因为宝哥哥说: "你就是那倾国倾城的貌，我就是这多病多灾的身。" It's also quoted from “淫词艳曲(西厢记)”。After Majic Jade said this, Black Jade flushed to the ears. They had an argument, and finally they forgave each other. At the end Black Jade burst out laughing at Majic Jade's comical oath and said: " 你原来也是个银样蜡头枪"！
Ain't i right??
Sorry, 我的“魔Majic”非你的“魔demon, devil” 也！
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Gu Yue
Ok, I see...
Sun Jan 3 01:19:09 1999
Whoever said that, it doesn't matter. I only explained to you what "www" was referring to. He might have thought the phrase came directly from 宝玉, I'm not sure. I don't speak on his behalf.
In that particular context, maybe, Black Jade didn't mean to make 银样蜡枪头 a pun in the same sense as we understand it today. Still many versions are valid in the same context, including "flowerless sprout," "bantam cock," "tiger-looking cat," and even "scarecrow." In the old days, "bantam cock" was not considered a pun as we interpret it today either.
You have your own right to interpretation for “魔”as "magic".
Only if I were 宝哥哥，I would have been overwhelmed with such a piece of flattery. Was it so common in Cao Xueqin's time for a girl to flatter a boy in person like that?
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宝哥哥
Then,how about the translatability on 黛玉's implication?
Sun Jan 3 01:54:49 1999
>Was it so common in Cao Xueqin's time for a girl
>to flatter a boy in person like that?
多新鲜啦！
Do you think "love" can be changed with time? with dynasty? with people? or with anything in the world? For example??
Only one thing inside cannot be changed : 美貌！！
Ain't i right???
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Gue Yue
I don't quite get it...
Sun Jan 3 01:56:21 1999
In the first place, I mean 'flattery', not 'love', sorry!
As for the translatability of 黛玉's implications. I don't quite get it either.
To me, all those versions have brought out 黛玉's implications: 宝玉 is just firm in appearance but weak in essence. A "bantam cock" is fierce and militant in attitude but insignificent in stature. A cat is only a tiger lookalike but in reality it's just a miniature. A "scarecrow" is only a figure made of straws to frighten crows away from crops, suggesting something frightening but harmless. I wonder what other implications 银样蜡枪头 has?
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宝哥哥
yes,
Sun Jan 3 02:42:30 1999
Yes, the meaning is quite all right!!
但是, 你永远也翻译不出来黛玉对
宝玉的无限娇嗔和爱意， ：-)
With regard to "love" and "flattery", Shall we turn to the original point?
It's only because my Black Jade love me so much, and then she flatter me!!
Otherwise, ... do you think it's possible for her to say " "你真真是我命里的天魔星,"
You can see here, not only "魔Magic" ,but also 天Heaven; Nirnava, and 星 star....,"
Do you always flatter people without "love"??
or harbor something evil?? Big Sorry in advance!
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Gu Yue
Oh, please! Don't amuse me!
Sun Jan 3 03:26:57 1999
1) The sweet delicacy can be brought out more in the tone than in the language used by the speaker. Whichever version is used, different tones can express different shades of sweet delicacy. You may wish to have a try.
2) As I said before, the flavor of "sweet delicacy" is in the taste of the connoisseur. I won't challenge your taste, of course.
As for "love" and "flattery", sorry, maybe I didn't put my point across...
Love is love, no objection. But the way of expressing love could vary with times. In the old days, girls would flatter boys in a more thickly-veiled manner than today. That's what I meant by differentiating "flattery" from "love."
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银样蜡枪头在我们的小说里经常出现，稍稍念过几本书的都会明白银样蜡枪头
的意思。宝哥哥和林妹妹也没有问题吧。如果宝玉说这话，那一定是调情或挑
逗了，只是银样蜡枪头双关的程度还不够，太白了些。只能当作下流话了。说
脏话也是人的天性吧，尤其宝玉这样一个纨绔。其实，宝哥哥在某些方面没有
薛蟠来的痛快，躲躲闪闪，为大丈夫所不为。
从宝哥哥所言来看，正是落入了“原汁原味”（古月语）的旧窠。哈哈！按
“原汁原味”的标准，宝哥哥是不会满意古月先生的译文的。宝哥哥很象林妹
妹嘛！
古月用那东西脏了林美眉的耳朵，所以宝哥哥恼了？地有南北东西，时分古今。
宝哥哥要揣测曹雪芹的林妹妹，难度不在朱子注《四书》之下。对着《红楼梦》，
宝哥哥不知道会淌多少疑惑和坏笑！你知道那玩意脏不脏了耳朵。成天看西厢
记，脏不了！
呵呵
www
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宝哥哥
Here's something about "君子 and ..." again ,:-)
Mon Jan 4 22:22:39 1999
>说脏话也是人的天性吧，尤其宝玉这样一个纨绔。
>其实， 宝哥哥在某些方面没有薛蟠来的痛快，躲躲
>闪闪，为大丈夫所不为。
哈哈！请问说脏话真的是人的天性吗？
那么“人之初， 性本善”是什么意思啊 ？
薛蟠若听到这话， 知到还有小女孩欣赏他的痛快，
为大丈夫所为， 该不会去抢人家的丫头， 打人命
官司了吧！
我觉得奇怪的是， 小小女孩冒充那老学究， 说话
还老气横秋的， 有什么好？
>从宝哥哥所言来看，正是落入了“原汁原味”（古月语）的旧窠。
不对。 我不仅仅是觉得“原汁原味”不够。
无论古月先生/小姐怎么解释 "a bantam cock", 这个短语
都是不能接受的，它不象 红楼梦里黛玉的语言。
红楼梦里， 自幼饱读诗书，受我中华五千年文明史
影响和熏陶的黛玉， 说话是十分讲究语言艺术的。
她有时候甚至非常忌讳。有一回她和老太太谈话时，
说到她的母亲名字中的一个字都是要回避的。
更何况“cock”?
我认为这正好证明了“不可译”！您水平再高又
怎么样？我红楼梦里还有好多谐音呢！
其实曹雪芹时代的女孩(红楼梦里的女孩)也是很会说“爱”
的呢 ！--not that thickly-veiled at all!
还在黛玉很小的时候， 她就嘲笑过湘云的“二(爱)哥哥”啦。
请问您译得出来湘云这“爱哥哥”吗？？
>宝哥哥要揣测曹雪芹的林妹妹，难度不在朱子注《四书》之下。
>对着《红楼梦》，宝哥哥不知道会淌多少疑惑和坏笑！
>你知道那玩意脏不脏了耳朵。成天看西厢记，脏不了
Nonsense!
好像有个什么成语来着， 叫“以什么...度什么..... 的”?
What would you think if I'm reading Bible?? But, I find it's
also un-translatable, :-).
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www
哈哈哈哈哈哈......
Tue Jan 5 00:20:47 1999
>>哈哈！请问说脏话真的是人的天性吗？
>>那么“人之初， 性本善”是什么意思啊 ？
"人之初， 性本善"原本就是某些无聊的人为了哄骗大脑袋的人而随口编
出来的瞎话。有道听途说且好事者载之以行骗，中国的古书成书太早，
是遗产，但不要轻信，更不要胡乱传播它。说实话，我不知道“人之初，
性本善”的意思。你就肯定你的句读正确？“人之，初性。本？善！”
不行吗？
》》薛蟠若听到这话， 知到还有小女孩欣赏他的痛快，
》》为大丈夫所为， 该不会去抢人家的丫头， 打人命
》》官司了吧！
薛蟠是《红楼梦》里为数不多的正常人，所以今天社会上还有许多
“薛公子”，足见其符合社会发展之规律。
》》我觉得奇怪的是， 小小女孩冒充那老学究， 说话
》》还老气横秋的， 有什么好？
曹雪芹笔下的林妹妹说的是曹雪芹的话。写红楼梦时的曹雪芹是什么人？
小姑娘？
>从宝哥哥所言来看，正是落入了“原汁原味”（古月语）的旧窠。
》》不对。 我不仅仅是觉得“原汁原味”不够。
》》无论古月先生/小姐怎么解释 "a bantam cock", 这个短语
》》都是不能接受的，它不象 红楼梦里黛玉的语言。
看来您还是理解了一些楼上帖子里的双关。我上帖的本意就是怀疑你自以为
宝哥哥或林妹妹。果不其然！“象”——谁的语言？您不是要“原汁”，
要“原味”？
》》红楼梦里， 自幼饱读诗书，受我中华五千年文明史
》》影响和熏陶的黛玉， 说话是十分讲究语言艺术的。
》》她有时候甚至非常忌讳。有一回她和老太太谈话时，
》》说到她的母亲名字中的一个字都是要回避的。
》》更何况“cock”?
历数我们中国人的书，下流话多吧？谁写的？人类有口头语言不知多少年了，
书面语言历史并不长。在这不长的历史上，老百姓受教育的时间更短，老百姓
如我辈只是有幸读几行字。都是有闲阶级有闲时弄闲时记下的。林妹妹说
“cock”有什么不对？否则它心理发育不顺利。都是人！您就没听菜场买菜的
小姐说：“多大的公鸡，１５块呀！”
》》我认为这正好证明了“不可译”！您水平再高又
》》怎么样？我红楼梦里还有好多谐音呢！
看来，您只是认为谐音不可译。不是不可译，而是译了好不好。大不了加注释，
以俟能者！我就不信解释不清楚，了不起把个洋人请到懊恼各国来读上１０年
８年的书。我就不信解释不清楚。
》》其实曹雪芹时代的女孩(红楼梦里的女孩)也是很会说“爱”
》》的呢 ！--not that thickly-veiled at all!
》》还在黛玉很小的时候， 她就嘲笑过湘云的“二(爱)哥哥”啦。
》》请问您译得出来湘云这“爱哥哥”吗？？
呵呵，真是小儿女的爱情故事！参见论坛以前众贤的帖子。如汉英精粹。
>宝哥哥要揣测曹雪芹的林妹妹，难度不在朱子注《四书》之下。
>对着《红楼梦》，宝哥哥不知道会淌多少疑惑和坏笑！
>你知道那玩意脏不脏了耳朵。成天看西厢记，脏不了
》》Nonsense!
》》好像有个什么成语来着， 叫“以什么...度什么..... 的”?
》》What would you think if I'm reading Bible?? But, I find it's
》》also un-translatable, :-).
Are you "native" to China mainland? You must be reading Bible to build
a western version of your Honey Bao. Just kidding.
一句话，您的两份帖子加深了我对原汁原味提法的影象，挥之难去！
谢谢！
有得罪的地方，请您宝哥哥忘记了。
www
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宝哥哥
Your laughing is very chic and masculine! Your...
Tue Jan 5 22:12:51 1999
"家母" must be very proud of you!! Is it because of "您的" "lovely hen" isn't
around right now?
Accordingly, if you think anything is translatable, please give me a counterpart
for the above Chinese! Is there honorific and humble-form expression in
English like in Chinese??
> "人之初， 性本善"原本就是某些无聊的人为了哄骗大脑袋的人
>而随口编出来的瞎话。有道听途说且好事者载之以行骗，中国的
>古书成书太早，是遗产，但不要轻信，更不要胡乱传播它。说实
>话，我不知道“人之初， 性本善”的意思。你就肯定你的句读正
>确？“人之，初性。本？善！” 不行吗？
Of course, It's OK if you want it be. However, i don't get
it, could you please give me an English version for
your “人之，初性。本？善！”?
Can it be still called “三字经”？
You impressed me that you have read quite a lot of
Nonsense-books and you are also cheatting around,
and quite actively!
Be patient, let me prove it:
A few days ago, in this forum you posted:
菩 提本无树
明镜亦非台
本来无一物
何处惹尘埃
And also gave an English version:
There is neither a Bodhi tree in you,
nor a Mirror-like place inside you.
With no such things,
Where could the dust rest?
Do you know all these stuff had been discussed many years ago by me and
my Black Jade in that RED MANSION also. We feeled it's interesting and we
also had some English versions as follows:
The body is a Bodhi tree,
The mind a mirror clear;
Often keep it polished clean,
Let no dust settle there
or:
The Bodhi tree is no tree,
The mind no mirror clear;
Since nothing is really there,
Where can any dust appear?
We even had something more:
If there's no "I", meither is there "you",
If she misunderstands you then why rue?
Freely I come and freely too i go,
Giving myself to neither joy nor woe,
Close kin or distant--it's the same to me.
What was the point of all my past toil?
Looking back now, it's worth nothing at all.
Black Jade polished it by adding two lines to it:
When there's no place for feet to rest,
That is the purest state and best.
Don't you feel these are much better than yours?? Are you
still think it's kind of cheatting?
> 薛蟠是《红楼梦》里为数不多的正常人，所以今天社会上还有许
>多“薛公子”，足见其符合社会发展之规律。
Again, i don't get it. What's the meaning of your "正常人" ?? For example?
I only heard “薛呆子”， i don't know where is "薛公子" from? I especially
don't know where are those “薛公子” in our moden society?
> 历数我们中国人的书，下流话多吧？
It's only depending on what kind of selection do you make?
There's Buddha in Buddha's eye.
>在这不长的历史上，老百姓受教育的时间更短，老百姓如我辈只>是有幸读几行字。
都是有闲 阶级有闲时弄闲时记下的。林妹妹说>“cock”有什么不对？否则它心理
发育不顺利。都是人！您 就>没听菜场买菜的小姐说：“多大的公鸡，１５块呀！”
Please keep in mind that my Black Jade isn't common people. Her farther's
Salt Commissioner LIN. Her mother's the aunt of the Emperor's first concubine.
Right, she's leisure class and noble. She is normal in her class.
>大不了加注释，以俟能者！我就不信解释不清楚，了不起把个洋>人请到懊恼各国
来读上１０年８年的书。我就不信解释不清楚。
You are supportting me! It means that you agree "不可译"！ Thanks a lot!
If let foreigners come to learn Chinese for 8 or 10 years, what's the use
of those interpreters and translators?? Is there still a job called "translation"
??
> 呵呵，真是小儿女的爱情故事！
Could you please do me a favor, tell me the meaning of the posting:
" I am not married, but already pecked by a hen.:-)"
It seems that you are also not that old and , maybe "爱哥哥" should be translated
as " My henpecked" in your case, :-) 请千万不要生气! kidding only, :-)
>你知道那玩意脏不脏了耳朵。
Of course i know it's a dirty word, BTW, is there anything wrong with me
by knowing that? I'm 宝哥哥， not 宝哥哥's father--贾政(假正经)。 Can
you give me a counterpart for 贾政(假正经)??
It's just because i want my Black Jade speak a no-longer-dirty word, then
i posted here. :-) Can you give me a nicer version if you think it's translatable?
> 一句话，您的两份帖子加深了我对原汁原味提法的影象，挥之难去！
Right! But i am not only meaning " 原汁原味" , but also Chinese, Chinese
culture, Chinese culture background,...
> 谢谢！ 有得罪的地方，请您宝哥哥忘记了。
谢谢！ 有得罪的地方，请您忘记.
Plus best wishes!!
***************************************
古月
致“宝哥哥”：关于“二(爱)哥哥”...
Tue Jan 5 01:15:26 1999
楼下“贾哥哥”与“www”讨论热烈，咱就不想掺和了。只是觉得“贾
哥哥”提出的新的挑战“二(爱)哥哥”很有意思，引起了咱的兴趣，
就来试着解一解这个迷：
“二”与“爱”并不完全谐音，其双关效果是要借助方言或故意走音
才能牵强的双关，对不对？这就好办了。
我们常在法庭辩论中听到人们尊称法官的时候叫“your honor，”对
不对？这个“honor”一走音就可能说成“honey”，是不是？这里，
可以把史湘云的口头禅“二(爱)哥哥”转译成她老以玩笑的口吻称其
所爱为“荣哥哥”{Brother, my honor (honey)? }。
看来我得写本书了
您的家母是不是以您为骄傲咱不清楚，不可能也没必要。我可以确定的是，我是
顶天立地的汉子，所以我的家母的确对我不是很担心。
幼承母训，“唱戏要人看，请客盼人来”。您的ACTIVELY，虽说什么都能翻，但
在不明白您写下这个字出于何种考虑的时候，只有您自个明白什么意思。大丈夫
顶天立地，有人唱戏我要看，有人请客我要吃，不请自到。何况本论坛的访客中
高人多多，更有师长在。我学了艺，自然要游历江湖，与众人过招，看别人过招，
才能学得致用之学。（版主，这也是您创立本坛的初衷之一，或是意外的收获吧）
我的笑声，您没有用自己的干净耳朵听过，自然不懂得其中的妙处。时至今日，很
多过去的同窗对我的记忆最显著的还是我响彻12#楼的爽朗的“哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈”。
我的她？我看您的帖子时就在我的身旁唤我去买菜！您没有想到吧。我说明了本帖
子的来去之后，我的她也是哈哈哈大笑（底气不足够足，没有我气长），说（红楼
梦）真是有趣。
Nonsense-books是您的译笔？还是借来的？是贾政责骂宝哥哥不正经做举业的话吧？
我受不起，不敢自比于贾哥哥！如果您以“杂书”来界说它，我或可接受。至于
cheatting around，咱还不能领会它的精义。无法置评。如果强调cheat，不敢。
本人倒是为了帮助因为家贫不得不打工求活所以没有时间考试的同学做过几张不重
要的卷子。其人至今难忘，每每提及，引为快事。人那么好骗？你骗到了林妹妹吗？
还到处骗？我一个同事倒是通过互联网的Cchat.exe（Win98 Program Files目录下
就有，或者单击“开始”按钮，指向“查找”，选定“文件活文件夹”选项，“弹
出对话框后，在“名称”栏内键入“*chat.exe”,再单击“开始查找”）捉了几只
花蝴蝶。那也是本事。
闲话少讲。三字经充其量也就是没有便于携带字典的时代，凑几个常用字让人识字，
没有什么“微言大义”！你去看看那篇让洛阳的纸张涨价的文章，有什么好？还不
是因为里面用了许多不同的字，那会又没有便宜又好携带的字典！三字经，是因为
三个字放在一起讲吗？恐怕是为了易于诵读吧。看看千字文就明白了。第一个说
“人之初，性本善”的人，所处的时代里可能还没有钢笔和纸张吧，记下来太难。
而且，那个人也未必就是象雍正乾隆那样一字万金，有人记录。况且，句读一直就
是个问题。数代学人几经努力也还不能全部达成一致意见。说实话，我是不理解人
之初，性本善是什么。我自己的界读是这样的：人呀，初尝性事，是本能？是行善！
（Out of what that man and woman first tried sex? Out of instinct? No, the willing to do good!）
本人活得还不够长，红楼梦读得不多，我最喜欢西游记，喜欢孙猴子和猪八戒，牛
魔王也有趣得紧！孙猴子再翻斤斗，也逃不出您宝哥哥的Buddha’s eye呀。好厉害！
有闲弄闲，多好呀。我流口水了！
为了考证红楼梦和咱家乡话的渊源，咱也在红楼梦里挑了几行字来读过。结果不是
很令人满意。却意外发现，红楼梦之所以被看重，原因大概有：记录了作者所经历
的社会的某些间接的影子；我们的把它揪来凑了“四大古典文学名著”；迎合了后
人对有闲生活的可梦不可及的憧憬。宝哥哥和林妹妹的故事原本和当代言情读物没
有本质区别，差别是前者离我们远，经好念，也引发了对那样的生活的梦企。随便
打开我所在的北京的一台电视机，黄金时段的“还珠格格”，“1号法庭”演绎的是
同样的故事。呵呵，“呆霸王”呆吗？我看和康熙的第十个儿子差不多吧！或者十
阿哥就是“呆霸王”的原形吧！你如果不理解我说的“足见其符合社会发展之规律”，
原因大概是：一心只读“风月鉴”，两耳不闻“无线电”，三生由来为宝黛，四化
迎头我自在。
至于贾政，甄士荫，贾雨村，我自以为不要自做解释，名字而已。真要解释，去看
看Scarlet Letter的导读就可以了。用不着费心思！再不行，看看林纾的译作，
您也可以舒服一点，明白一些。
最后，摘录一段诺顿寰宇文字大作选：
daimonie, phthisei se to son menos. （摘自荷马的Iliad） How should they
be translated into English?
Here is how they have actually been translated into English by capable
translators, at various periods, in verse and prose.
1 George Chapman, 1598
O Noblest in desire,
They mind, inflamed with others’ good, will set thy self on fire
2 John Dryden, 1693
Thy dauntless heart (which I foresee too late)
Too daring man, will urge thee to thy face.
3 Alexander Pope, 1715
Too daring prince!…
For sure such courage length of life denies,
And thou must fall, thy virtue’s sacrifice.
…….
9. Robert Fitzgerald, 1976
Oh, my wild one, your bravery will be
Your own undoing
From these strikingly different renderings of the same six words,
certain facts about the nature of translation begin to emerge…….
Here then is the first and the most crucial fact about any work of
literature read in translation. It cannot escape the linguistic
characteristics of the language into which it is turned: the grammatical,
syntactical, lexical, and phonetic boundaries which constitute collectively
the individuality or “genius” of that language.
…a second crucial fact about translations. Nobody knows exactly what
shade of meaning daimonie had for Homer.
…The fact about translation which emerges from all this is that just
as the translated work reflects the individuality of the language it is
turned into, so it reflects the individuality of the language in which it
is done, and the age will permeate it everywhere like yeast in dough.
…For it is true that what we translate from a given work is what,
wearing the spectacles of our time, we see in it, it is also true that we
see it what we have the power to translate.
红楼梦作者经历的年代，如果考据足以信的话，离我们不远，毕竟，枪头一语也见得
多了，相信枪头一语所指没有过多转移。您认为，林妹妹不应该听，您不愿意林妹妹
听古月老兄带“cock”的译文。为什么？西厢记都看了，还有什么不能听的？也许连
金瓶梅都熟读几百遍，烂熟于心呢，反正有的是时间，又有银子买书看！
扯远了。我同意上述For it is true that what we translate from a given work
is what, wearing the spectacles of our time, we see in it, it is also true
that we see it what we have the power to translate.的说法。译者，一也，
艺也，疑也，怡也，意也，移也，异也，还有，义也。您说不可译的东西，我看，都
被人译了。你手里有英文译本，或者读过英文译本吧？Iliad译了多少本了？各年代都
有！人力有限。您的Context一说是对，把个洋人请来学习的也是Context，这洋人应
该可以看懂古月先生译文了吧。或者洋大人自己会动笔，攒拨出自己的版本。呵呵
对着电脑发呆，说什么都忘了！
你那里的冬天下雪吗？呵呵