laoliu 于 2000/03/06 15:25:12 发表在 汉英
The Strangeness
The strangeness of others--
Even your sisters and brothers--
Is a responsibility to
Overcome--or some night they will be lying
In a bed dying--and how you loved them,
Its quality--will be as unknown
To you as you own mother was
While a living stranger.
--Stan Rice
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呵呵，使我想起一个特好玩儿的旧帖:-)
作者：hz - 2000/03/06 15:51:38
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You people have made poetry much easier! Simply wonderful!
作者：Learner Poet - 2000/01/27 16:14:29 ***
Just line a prose in a way to make it look like a terrace and call it a poem. Isn't it simply wonderful?
Love lit a fire in my chest, and anything
that wasn't love left: intellectual
subtlety, philosophy
books, school.
All I want now
to do or hear
is poetry.
How about returning it to its prosaic form? Let's try!
Love lit a fire in my chest, and anything that wasn't love left: intellectual subtlety, philosophy books, school. All I want now to do or hear is poetry.
Had I known
the trick
earlier,
How many more poems
would I have
composed?
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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确实是很好玩！
作者：laoliu - 2000/03/06 17:15:54
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But seriously, this is in the poets' defense:
写诗人特殊的
断句方法
强迫读者，慢慢地
有耐心地
带着特殊的心情
期待着激烈壮丽的画面
震耳的呼喊
准备去哭、笑
疯狂而后清醒
就像写诗人
写诗的那个早上
一样感觉
所以，请
预留一个小时
读五行诗
(Damn, I want to start my poetic career right now!)
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Haha! What a promising poetry star! :-)
作者：hz - 2000/03/06 18:28:43
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However, better try novel, 'cause the "traditional view" is that "only novels are serious literature". :-)))
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No! I've got writer's cramps, no, cramp! :-)
作者：laoliu - 2000/03/07 10:58:54
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I remember Wang Shuo (or maybe it's someone else) said one day something fell from the sky, as in a freak accident, and struck five people dead, all of them writers. Or something like that. (Ha! This is how I tell a joke and you want me to write novels!)
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Ha! Sure you knew that I was telling a joke too? :-)
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 12:04:59
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Sorry if I didn't put it across. But I do enjoy your postings all the time, so there would be nothing wrong to take my joke seriously :-)
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Poetry analysis
作者：Fang Hu zhai - 2000/03/06 19:50:27
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Even when I was in high school I had the same question: what is a poem? Many contemporary English poems reads just like prose broken into lines.
I think contemporary poetry has discarded the old conventions of feet, rhymes etc. They still try to keep some musical quality, but what is more important is the image and the idea. What we Chinese will call the "falvor of poetry".
I think this poem still tries to say something to us, the sense of alienation in today's world.
The music is built in here and there, like in lines 1 and 2, and "lying" and "dying". But there is not much of it.
Another important thing that makes a poem a poem, rather than a broken prose, is thw way the text is put together. There should be some gaps. If we read the following, we can feel such gaps in the second half of the text. And of course in the last line, "mother" and "stranger" also end with the same sound.
The strangeness of others--Even your sisters and brothers--is a responsibility to overcome--or some night they will be lying in a bed dying--and how you loved them,its quality--will be as unknown to you as you own mother was while a living stranger.
But of course if I had written it, it would have been thrown into the garbage bin.There are so many poets nowadays that editors have to choose the most well know to sell their publications.
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鄙人对诗的认识很有限，但到目前为止，依然觉得咱们中国的古诗词最优美，读起来琅琅上口，或激越，或悲沉，使人百读不厌！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/03/07 06:14:27
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因此，在现代诗中，除了极少数（如《再见康桥》等）外，我一般不读。至于，英文的诗，没读过，但即使看过，怎么也没有那种感觉。
当然，毛泽东的诗词却是个例外，只可惜，此等诗才恐怕是绝后的了！
提到毛诗，其实就有一首比楼下那首所谓诗好的多的被港台当作“三级”的诗，不过，为免再起波澜，就不录了！
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Meunique
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颇有同感
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 07:23:41
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只是英文诗刚刚开始看出一点意思来。另外也想不出您指的是哪首毛诗。不过算了。
BTW，是“再别康桥”也！:-)
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哈哈！刚才是打“再别”，但又觉得不对，便改成“再见”了。不瞒您说，这首诗我还真没认真看过……
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/03/07 07:43:27
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第一次接触它是若干年前，在香港教育电视上，经常有一群摇头晃脑的小学生在反复吟诵。当时听到就觉得它很好。至于，这位大情人的其他诗就一点都不知道了。咳，读书太少了！也许，得买本他的诗集来看看才行啦！
至于那首被港台指为“三级”的毛诗，我还以为很多人都知道的呐。算了，别再生事端了。
有一事问您，你们那边装了“瘟酒吧”后，常见的中英文字体是什么？让我在写语法贴的时候，可以有个参照？
咦，您怎么那么早？我还在等汉英大姐把拙译贴上去呢。
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Meunique
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对了，忘了问您这个“少”北京，楼上的人讲的好象不太清楚，您给说一下你们北京话里的“小蜜”和“洒蜜”是什么意思？
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/03/07 07:49:47
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Meunique
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大概
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 08:48:20
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“小蜜”可能最初是从“Miss”一词来的，(音义结合翻译的典范:-)，原来可能意义更泛，但后来一
般用来指有钱有权者带着的年轻漂亮的女孩子(女秘书？:-)，语含轻视，有“钱色交易”的暗示，所
以除了玩笑，一般不会当面说某某是某某的小蜜。如果粤语“靓女”一词是“漂亮女孩”的意思，那
这两者含义就相差很远了。或者“靓女”也有这种含义？
“洒蜜”可能是后来兴起的词，我也没听说过。不过北京话有将“潇洒”“洒脱”简说成“洒”的，
也许就是这个意思？即使上面的“小蜜”一词其实也多是社会上用，呆在校园里的人多是转折听来，
所以我的解释未必准确。随便一看吧。
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您既有这样多问题，这次hz自然要acts like she is a teacher of LH!
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 08:11:33
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“再别康桥”这里有：http://www.sunrisesite.org/library/gb/renwu/xuzhimo/cambridge.hz
另外，较之诗，我似更偏爱徐志摩的散文，“人民文学”或“浙江文艺”出的都很不错。
您说的毛诗是指哪首，有点好奇。别是那些相信李医生的书的人捏造的吧？说题目或词牌总不妨？
>> 有一事问您，你们那边装了“瘟酒吧”后，常见的中英文字体是什么？让我在写语法贴的时候，
可以有个参照？
我还真说不上来。不过您的语法帖字体都很好，完全没问题，我觉得就还这样就行了。
>> 咦，您怎么那么早？我还在等汉英大姐把拙译贴上去呢。
晚安得早啊？要不怎么说今早一大片蓝色扑面而来呢:-) 什么“拙译”？New York Times？
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were :(
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 09:05:26
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哈哈！“靓女”是指贤妹这些^_^……
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/03/07 09:24:56
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李进写了一首五言绝句，毛在其照片上题了一首七绝。
我看您的英文字体应该没问题，中文就不知道您能不能看到“楷体”、“隶书”这些了（到WORD的“字体”下拉菜单里看看便知）。
就是《时代》那篇文章，我给大姐发了（几个版本），可是她好象没法打开:(((
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Meunique
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哈哈哈哈哈哈......
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 10:06:06
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我好象老是哈哈哈的，可是有什么办法呢？恰好前两天刚在一个网页上“重温”这两首诗:-)
(http://liuli.nethome.com.cn/19.htm)，觉得江青挺有品味的，境界不俗。我瞧没准儿是说它们
“三级”的人自己“三级”。
楷书隶书等您愿意的话可以试一下，要是读不了再改回来就是了。不过我以前确有读不了宋体
文件的经历。计算机上中文读写的问题确实使人伤透了脑筋。
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哎呀，要是我这边试了就行，还用问您么？我这边有的字体，您这边可能没有呀！所以才问！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/03/07 10:13:52
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Meunique
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哎呀，我是说“您”试试帖上来，“我”告诉您能不能读:-)
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 10:41:59
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木老师晚安！:-))))
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愚见真愚！
作者：Last Hermit - 2000/03/07 11:07:34
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黑体：对不起，愚兄真愚了！
楷体：对不起，愚兄真愚了！
隶书：对不起，愚兄真愚了！
幼圆：对不起，愚兄真愚了！
方正姚体：对不起，愚兄真愚了！ Oops! Stupid is your brother! (Times New Roman)
Oops! Stupid is your brother! (Arial)
Oops! Stupid is your brother! (Verdana)
Oops! Stupid is your brother! (Broadway)
Oops! Stupid is your brother! (Impact)
Oops! Stupid is your brother! (MS Sans Serif)
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Meunique
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多有得罪:-)
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 11:29:07
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100 "I'm sorry"s! :-))))))
您上帖的英文字体都出来了，汉字却全一个模样。不知别人是否也跟我看到的一样。
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英文版的“瘟酒吧”好像都分不出中文字体的！
作者：laoliu - 2000/03/07 13:14:54
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Okay, relieved. Gates' problem instead of mine.
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 13:53:43
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Traditional English poetry
作者：Fang Hu Zhai - 2000/03/07 21:11:30
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Actually traditional English poetry also can supply some pleasure in reading alound. William Blake, for example. Also the "imperialist poet" who wrote much about life India (I forgot his name). The abab, or aabb pattern of rhyme fits Chinese pattern. Sonnet will be different abab cdcd efef gg.
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老师的错
作者：laoliu - 2000/03/07 21:50:29
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They didn't teach me anything about English poems in high school or college (I was a science major, though). So when it comes to rhythms, feet, and metrics, I am at a loss! I think I'd better grab a primer on the subject and read up.
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