Fang Hu zhai 于 2000/03/06 20:03:02 发表在 汉英
I have some xin1de2 on appreciating translated poems. Read the translation first. Do not read the original. If its read like poem, it is already half OK. Then check if it is faithful to the original. Faithing in sprit, not necessarily in form. If yes, then it is 100% OK. I use this method to read English translations of ancient Chinese poems and I can enjoy quite some translations, albeit some of them not so faithful, even wrong. If you read the original, almost every translation becomes a betrayal.
The other day I came to three translations of Zeng Shen's "Beifeng Juandi Baicao Zhe". One translation mistakenly translated "hutian bayue ji feixue" as something like "who says that in the Tartar land it snows in August?". This is wrong, sure, but it is a lovely mistake. We can tell how the translator made the mistake; "hutian" was read as "huyun - hu clound", meaning, "why say".
These three tranlsations are in Lvshuxiang ed. Zhongshi Yingyi Bilu (A Comparative Compilation of Chinese Poems in English), I like the first better although it creates a lot. I do not have the book with me now so I cannot type them here.
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Must be an interesting read: A Comparative Compilation of Chinese Poems in English
作者：laoliu - 2000/03/07 00:57:23
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Quite agree!
作者：古月 - 2000/03/07 09:32:39
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Robert Frost, the famous American poet, once said, "Poetry is what gets lost in translation." Well, there may be a grain of truth in what he says; some flavor associated with the original language will inevitably get lost to the original reader. But the taste of translation largely depends on two factors: 1) the flavor of the original tends to prejudice bilingual readers against the translation and, so to speak, prejudge his taste for the latter; 2) as poetry translation is a process of re-composition, one got to be able to write English poems to translate Chinese poetry into English to cater to English readers and, likewise, he got to be a Chinese poet to recompose English poems into palatable Chinese. Otherwise, flavor cannot be properly transported in the process of translation.
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中诗英译比录
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 20:45:29
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方君不提不知有这一本妙书，原来是吕叔湘先生五十多年前旧稿。英译误解比比皆是，确实很好玩儿，
有时简直莫名其妙，书的序中已有批评。岑参原诗挺长，堆在一起不易读，先替您录前四句吧。
白雪歌送武判官归
(唐)岑参
北风卷地白草折
胡天八月即飞雪
忽如一夜春风来
千树万树梨花开
FAREWELL TO A COMRADE
(Charles Budd)
Cold gusts from Arctic Regions sweep the ground,
And snowflakes countless fly through the wintry sky.
Covering with spotless robe the earth around,
While snow flowers frail on twigs and branches lie.
THE WHITE SNOW SONG; A FAREWELL TO WU PAN-KUAN ON HIS RETURN HOME
(C. Gaunt)
The north wind rolls the dust along, and snaps the grasses sere.
Why do the snowflakes fill the sky in the eighth moon of the year?
'Tis just as on a night in spring sudden the wind doth wail,
Then from a myriad pear trees fly the blossoms scattered,
(And through the pearly lattice dew the curtains of my bed.)
(此译将前五句断为一节)
A SONG OF WHITE SNOW IN FAREWELL TO FIELD-CLERK WU GOING HOME
(Witter Bynner)
The north wind rolls the white grasses and breaks them;
And the Eighth-month snow across the Tartar sky
Is like a spring gale, come up in the night,
Blowing open the pedals of ten thousand pear-trees.
我译不出，却有一点点读者的意见，就是“胡天八月即飞雪”中的“即”字似乎都没有译出来。
上面是上世纪(I mean 20th century!)初的译本，我手边恰又有汉学家Stephen Owen八十年代的译文。
SONG OF THE WHITE SNOW: SENDING OFF JUDGE WU ON HIS RETURN TO THE CAPITAL
(白雪歌送武判官归京)
The north winds roll up the earth,
white grasses snap.
In the Tartar skies of September
the snow is flying.
Suddenly it's as though in one entire night
the spring winds comes,
And on thousands of trees, millions of trees,
blossoms of pear appear
(That come scattering through the beaded curtains,...)
您注意到“八月”已被译为September了么？
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将“八月”译成September也就是将阴历换算成公历了？
作者：古月 - 2000/03/08 00:11:21
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或者上面的the eighth month也不错。August就不“信”了。
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多谢了！
作者：hz - 2000/03/08 15:36:07
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You guys seemed to be very interested in this comparative compilation, and I thought I'd just take advantage of the fact that I have easy access to a good Chinese liberary and post something for you. Wouldn't have bothered had I known I was so wrong.
By the way, thanks for your holiday's greetings.
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Hey, not 'cause we're not interested but 'cause there's too much to do and too many to read.
作者：古月 - 2000/03/08 19:02:59
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Please post more at an appropriate time:-)
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:-) It's okay. Thanks.
作者：hz - 2000/03/08 20:06:24
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Just a natural reaction, wasn't it? I need to be informed when "an appropriate time" is :-)
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When? When the forum is freezing, of course:-)
作者：古月 - 2000/03/08 21:06:11
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Well, then, I wish I'd never have to do it! :-)
作者：hz - 2000/03/08 21:30:49
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It's very interesting. Also your "poetry analysis" under another thread. And I'm wondering...
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 11:19:54
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what you translators think of this translation of 王之涣's "出塞".
黄河远上白云间，一片孤城万仞山。
羌笛何须怨杨柳？春风不度玉门关。
Yellow sands rise far away on high among white clouds,
Silhouette of a lonely fortress on a thousand-foot mountain.
Why should this nomad flute be playing wrath at the "leaves" of willow,
Since the wind of spring will never cross Jade Gate Barrier?
(by Stephen Owen. 所据底本首句为“黄沙远上白云间”)
BTW, by "Zeng Shen", I guess you meant "Cen Shen"? I doubt "Zeng Shen" has ever seen Tartar skies through all his life :-) Excuse me!
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对不起，无关的问题
作者：laoliu - 2000/03/07 13:57:55
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我用的是“瘟九五”加上IE5，中文输入是用IE5带的软件。请问，我用拼音的话，如何输入Ü as in LÜ师 (attorney)? 谢谢!
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用“lv”可以得到“律”。有的输入(双桥)用“lyu”。
作者：古月 - 2000/03/07 14:27:39
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Thank you! And such an ingenious solution, too!
作者：laoliu - 2000/03/07 14:33:00
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Or "luu". Thanks, Gu Yue!
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 14:52:40
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Thank you, hz!
作者：laoliu - 2000/03/07 19:24:09
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You are welcome!
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 20:48:55
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second line ??
作者：Fang Hu Zhai - 2000/03/07 21:05:30
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so a lonely walled city becomes a fortress and it build on a mountain. I think this is wrong. I visualize a picture of a walled city on a plain, with distant mountains as the background.
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Many thanks! And...
作者：hz - 2000/03/07 21:32:24
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maybe I need to explain a bit. My posting upstairs (中诗英译笔录) is mainly a reply to your original posting, although it's surely for laoliu and everyone else, too. Didn't follow yours just because it would have been too far away from the original one. Hope you'd enjoy re-read those translations! Thanks for mentioning the book.
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对第一句的理解
作者：px - 2000/03/08 07:16:31
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黄河远上白云间，一片孤城万仞山。
咱的理解是：黄河蜿蜒曲折，渺远无际，如同挂在白云间，
一座小小的城堡，孤独地处在高山的包围之中。
仞，古代长度单位，相当于2-3公尺。万仞，言其山高而已
另外，参森曾在安西、北庭作过官，有过几年的西北边塞生活。供参考！
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Sorry!岑参！
作者：px - 2000/03/08 07:22:04
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Thanks!
作者：hz - 2000/03/08 15:56:19
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您是说“黄河”与“黄沙”之别吧？对，我记得我们通常背的是“黄河”，但西北的环境又使人觉得
“黄沙”似乎也满合理的？如果说河的奔流更多地给人一种悲壮之感的话，沙则更多地是一种苍凉。
反正，总归是弄不清诗人(是王不是岑:-)本来的意思了。
谢谢。
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